Canadian Pre-Clearance

[marco]

Reading the welcome news that plans for a customs pre-clearance center are moving forward, and various politicians are excited to report that "passage of a this bill will save hours of delays", really & truly HOW MUCH TIME will be saved by this infrastructure improvement?

Looking on Amtrak's website,

https://www.amtrak.com/adirondack-train ... teOverview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the Adirondack enjoyed a 70% OTP for November. Two major sources of delay are train interference and track & signal. Seems the custom inspection delay isn't measured, or at least not reported on the website.

It's been my desire to "jump on the Adirondack, shoot up to Montreal, and catch the Ocean for the overnight to Halifax", however, the Ocean departs @19:00, and the Adirondack, (if it's on time) arrives @ 19:11.

Considering the upgrades in the Capitol District, and now the pre-clearance center, what can we REASONABLY expect the new arrival time when these improvements come online?






On a personal note, looking at the schedule NYP-MTR, it's 10 hours, and 56 minutes, a long time in coach. It's truly a bargain at only $77.00 for the trip, through some of the most scenic views of the country, from one major city to another, but sheesh! 11 hours.

[deathtopumpkins]

Pre-clearance isn't just about reducing delays. There's also time in the schedule for the border stop that will be eliminated (an hour? 30 minutes?), so the scheduled trip time should be reduced by about that much.

[ccutler]

well the flights between NYC and Montreal/Toronto are very easy and fast. If your time is worth anything, they are cheaper than the train as well.

[leviramsey]

Pre-clearance isn't just about reducing delays. There's also time in the schedule for the border stop that will be eliminated (an hour? 30 minutes?), so the scheduled trip time should be reduced by about that much.

The timetable for the Adirondack of January 11, 2016 shows

69: Dp Rouses Point (49 miles from Montreal) 4:05pm (L) => Lacolle (Canadian customs stop, 48 miles from Montreal) 5:41pm => St. Lambert (4 miles from Montreal) 6:57pm
68: Dp St. Lambert 10:35am => Ar Rouses Point 11:55am => Dp Rouses Point 12:55pm

So with the customs stop, Rouses Point to St. Lambert is 172 minutes, but without the stop, the reverse direction is 80 minutes, so the Northbound schedule builds in at least 92 minutes of delay due to customs (more because while 69's Rouses Point is an L stop, note that Plattsburgh - Rouses Point is timetabled at 43 minutes for 69 and 30 minutes for 68: it seems likely that 69 departs Rouses Point early most of the time). Rouses Point meanwhile clearly budgets an hour for customs delay. Obviously since the customs delays are so close to Montreal, it's likely that some of the NB/SB differences are end-of-journey schedule padding on the NB, while the SB may be more aggressive with assuming that customs delays will be made up closer to New York (a delayed 68 might reasonably expect to do better than timetable south of Poughkeepsie, as each minute of delay reduces the chance of it being held by MNRR). Still, taking customs out of the end-to-end trip will take a minimum of an hour out of the schedule (and may possibly take 75 or more minutes).

[Hawaiitiki]

Pre-clearance isn't just about reducing delays. There's also time in the schedule for the border stop that will be eliminated (an hour? 30 minutes?), so the scheduled trip time should be reduced by about that much.

I've taken this train a handful of times round trip in past few years. The stop is usually about 1 hour 15 minutes each way.

well the flights between NYC and Montreal/Toronto are very easy and fast. If your time is worth anything, they are cheaper than the train as well.

Toronto, you're 100% right, plenty of flights and you can often find prices round trip under $200 if you're savvy. Montreal, although is often much more expensive to fly into, usually more like $450 rt from NYC metro if you want to fly at a decent time of day AND not in the middle of the winter. And I try and avoid LGA like the plague, and flights from EWR and JFK are often even $100 (so ~$550) more.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Of interest, Mr. Google's leadfeet think the 369 mile drive Midtown NYC to same in Montreal can be done in a shade under six hours. How much time, if any, is factored into that for "formalities" is not reported.

While I've never ridden the Amtrak-era Adirondack, I have The Laurentian and have seen the view from an NYC Parlor Obs. I wholly agree it is likely the most scenic ride in the Northeast.

If the $77 fare noted earlier is representative, than that could even be less than the kid's "Hey Dad, can I borrow the car? I'll put gas in it, and I'll take your EZ Pass out" cost. Never mind any kind of allocated costs.

But eleven hours in a "packed" A-I and in an asile seat on the "wrong side" is "too much".

[NS VIA FAN]

It amazes me it has taken this long to implement US Pre-clearance at railway stations when you take into consideration it has been available at major Canadian Airports for years….. starting at Malton Airport in Toronto way back in 1952 for American Airlines flights to New York.

Even the Pre-Clearance at Pacific Central Station in Vancouver was not ‘full’ pre-clearance as customs is still done in Blaine WA…….it is an immigration inspection only in Vancouver for passengers bound for the US. This will now change to a full pre-clearance as will the new facility in Gare Centrale, Montreal.

And the only two stations where it will work are Vancouver and Montreal. Toronto will not work because of the several stops in Canada before reaching the border. The new Amtrak Station in Niagara Falls NY might work with both US and Canadian Officers working together in the same facility to clear the Maple Leaf.

[Railjunkie]

It's been my desire to "jump on the Adirondack, shoot up to Montreal, and catch the Ocean for the overnight to Halifax", however, the Ocean departs @19:00, and the Adirondack, (if it's on time) arrives @ 19:11.

Considering the upgrades in the Capitol District, and now the pre-clearance center, what can we REASONABLY expect the new arrival time when these improvements come online?

Back when I was in uniform you could do this most of the time easily. I think it may have even been a connection. However through the years speeds on the D&H have dropped and departure times have changed. What we used to suggest if we were going to be late in Central station was jump off at St Lambert.

[NS VIA FAN]

.......................... What we used to suggest if we were going to be late in Central station was jump off at St Lambert.

The stop at St. Lambert will have to be eliminated with pre-clearance as the train must run non-stop between the border and Montreal.

There will probably be at least an hour cut from the schedule each way. Southbound passengers will have to arrive earlier at Gare Centrale the same as they do now at Pacific Central in Vancouver to clear US CBP before boarding but once the train departs the schedule should be more predictable especially for those boarding at stops south of Rouses Point…. other than for the normal delays from meets and operational requirements.

Northbound the Adirondack should just sail right through the border to Montreal. If you are the fist passenger off to clear Canadian CBSA ….you’ll have the biggest time saving and be on your way instead of waiting for all to clear at the border. The last passenger off will have saved the least amount of time.

[east point]

If there is a crew clearance desk then the crews will save on duty time/

[Railjunkie]

Forgot about the sealed train. As of now it isn't so IF the poster wants the Ocean off 69 then St Lambert is the station.

[NS VIA FAN]

Forgot about the sealed train. As of now it isn't so IF the poster wants the Ocean off 69 then St Lambert is the station.

Yes that is correct for now. You can still connected with the Ocean at St Lambert but once pre-clearance is implemented, St. Lambert will be eliminated as a stop for the Adirondack and it will run sealed between Montreal and the US Border....just as the Amtrak Cascades do now between Vancouver Pacific Central and Blaine Washington

[Greg Moore]

Does this bill ONLY help Montreal or would it aid in the re-establishment of any sort of sealed train that could perhaps do Buffalo-Detroit?
(i.e. does the legislation make pre-clearance easier to do in other locations?)

I think this is one route that definitely could be worth re-establishing if the customs issue could he handled.

[NS VIA FAN]

Does this bill ONLY help Montreal or would it aid in the re-establishment of any sort of sealed train that could perhaps do Buffalo-Detroit?
(i.e. does the legislation make pre-clearance easier to do in other locations?)

I think this is one route that definitely could be worth re-establishing if the customs issue could he handled.

The old Canada Southern (Penn Central Conrail) route through St. Thomas that Amtrak used in the 1970s is long gone. Today a train would probably have to use the current VIA route through London-Hamilton-Niagara Falls. And why run it sealed for this considerable distance?......Missing a lot of potential passengers.

[Greg Moore]

Well, I'm thinking sealed so you can run a mostly completely Amtrak only train and not have to deal with customs at all.

Obviously, I think if you can squeeze in 1-2 passenger stops, I'd be all for it.

Ultimately, I think Amtrak needs to consider an additional ALB-CHI train (actually I'd turn the 449/448 into a separate train from the LSL, that's another story though) and run it through to Detroit and on to Chicago.

You can aid some of the major NY State cities with one more additional train, and get a bit more traffic through two larger cities in Michigan.