Tightening up MNRR New Haven Line

[DutchRailnut]

Richfielder, my job looking out front windows on trains for 30 years tells me your wrong , no room at larchmont or harrison or cp223 or rye but hey what hell do I know.

[Ridgefielder]

Richfielder, my job looking out front windows on trains for 30 years tells me your wrong , no room at larchmont or harrison or cp223 or rye but hey what hell do I know.

Dutch that's why I said most of the way, not all the way. I know chunks of the 6-track ROW are gone b/c of the way the stations in Larchmont & Rye were reconfigured when I-95 was put thru & b/c of the way the platforms & parking lots are laid out in Harrison & Mamaroneck. My point was that at least there's some room to expand through there on existing RR property, which is not the case once you get past Port Chester. Good trying to use eminent domain to grab land through downtown Greenwich-- might as well go build that TGV-NY&NE at that point.

[Fishrrman]

Dutch wrote above:
"put in for the job, MN loves it when railbuffs think they know it all."

Haha, I love it!

I put 32 years in on the New Haven line (along with a lot of other "lines").

It's probably in better shape today than it's been since the early '70's.

There are a few bridges in bad shape, but replacing them is an engineering and operational nightmare. It took around four years to do the Peck bridge, and that's at the "quiet end" of the line.

There's considerably more trains running today than back when I hired out. Sometimes there isn't anywhere to put them -- such as bottlenecks at Stamford, Pike, etc.

A few low-buck solutions might help. Such as dropping a switch onto track 3 at Pike, and install a new "track 5 spur" adjacent to track 3, so that turns can clear the main entirely.

[west point]

Lets put all the problems of capacity together.
1. There will always be a need for ongoing preventative maintenance. (PM)
2. If there is a 5th track in places then PM can be done much more efficiently. Then the tracks can be operated 3 & 2.
3. 3 and 1 track operation is going to be reduced to 2 and 1 on any route section where PM is being done. That also requires trains on the adjacent track(s) to slow to work zone speed limits. Any time there is just one direction track the expresses will have to follow any blocking local until past the one track one direction segment.
4. The bridge situation is critical as we saw when the 4 track swing bridge failed cutting off all trains thru that bridge.
5. CONN DOT does have the correct idea to replace all bridges especially the bridge listed in #4 to two separate draws ( probably lift bridges ). That allows MNRR to at least have service on two tracks if one bridge fails. Of course a power fail might disable both.
6. The replacement of present draws with new bridges ( probably lift bridges due to engineering and construction advantages ) will often cause some outage of one track and sometimes two tracks. That may be because of possible track relocation and demo of old bridge. ONE end support columns probably will need locating at location of the present inner tracks. The other column much further out of present outside tracks. There fore needed track realignment to put new bridge in service.
7. The hard part will come lengthening trains to the GCT platform lengths.
a. Island platforms will need track relocations to get longer at many stations maybe requiring real estate acquisition. The track relocation the longer platform.
b. Local platforms same real estate needs
c. 12.5 KV distribution system may need higher capacity built.
d. More M-8s ( or equivalent ) will be needed for both longer trains and more trains.
8. Restoring to 4 tracks where possible the route from Mott Haven - New Rochelle to allow expresses to bypass locals. Good luck getting New York state to supply the funds.
9. In relation to # 8 and Amtrak finally building the flyover at Shell interlocking and needed associated trackage.

[DutchRailnut]

the entire route from GCT to Devon is 4 track ?? a power out at bridge can be easily cured if emergency generator is installed, but with a total blackout those choo choo's don't have juice either.
the flyover idea was nixed cause there is not enough room.
More M-8's ?? commuters are bitching about 1% fare increase to pay for current M-8's and there is two more years of 1% to go .

[runningwithscalpels]

put in for the job, MN loves it when railbuffs think they know it all.

Don't forget, this is the same person who proclaimed that all of CDOT's P40s were getting scrapped because they bought the 4 NJT ones...

[BandA]

Metro-North traverses the 72 miles between New Haven and GCT in about 1:50, or about 39MPH, including 13 stops (at 4AM), or 1:42 making 5 stops (42MPH). Amtrak Acela runs 1:31 making 2 stops (about 47.5MPH - ignoring that it's actually going to Penn Station). That's way too slow for such a distance. I've read all the reasons why it is hard, but we should aspire to faster, more efficient service on this important line.

[Backshophoss]

The bridges are the biggest problem,with Walk the next bridge to be worked on,you still have catenary reconstruction
in progress,these are not overnight fixes,time is needed to do the job right the 1st time.
Now add in the ASCES install requirement,and other mandated fixes for NTSB and FRA,it's not that simple or easy to get stuff done
under traffic.
Take what you can get for now speed wise across the New Haven line,it will improve as projects get done...

[BandA]

What are the historical speeds?

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. B&A, "back in my day" (50's-60's) growing up along the New Haven RR at Cos Cob and Riverside, the maximum passenger speed on the West End was 70. There were no cab signals, no radios (lineside phones). The two WW tracks (2&4) were, just as the EW (1&3), for their direction of travel and not the other, except through interlockings. Had this plant been upgraded, the 1955 Jenkins Curve incident would have been avoided.

The "McNuisance Splash of Colors" only masked that this was a heavily trafficked, decaying piece of railroad. Mr. Weaver, entering service during 1956, knew it first hand and of course better than this "rider and observer". Mr. Railnut did not enter service until the publicly funded improvements were well underway.

Oh and finally, one was not "--bound" on the New Haven, you were traveling "--ward", as in Eastward and Westward.

[TomNelligan]

What are the historical speeds?

Going back fifty years, typical New Haven RR running times in 1965 in what is now Metro North territory were as follows:

GCT-New Haven on Boston or Springfield expresses stopping only at Stamford and Bridgeport: 1 hour 30 minutes.
GCT-New Haven locals, express to Stamford and then most stops in Fairfield County: 1 hour 50 minutes to 2 hours.
GCT-Stamford locals making all stops: 1 hour 10 minutes.

There were exceptions to the above, but those are the general numbers.

[BenH]

For those interested, here are the track speeds on February 3, 2015:

"Bulletin Order" / Dec 11, 2014
http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/docum ... mkey=90683
(click on "view", NH line speeds are on page 3)
National Transportation Safety Board Public Docket
Accident No. DCA15MR006 / Feb 03, 2015 / Valhalla, NY, United States

"Daily Operations Bulletin Order" / Feb. 3, 2015
http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/docum ... mkey=90683
National Transportation Safety Board Public Docket
Accident No. DCA15MR006 / Feb 03, 2015 / Valhalla, NY, United States

[DutchRailnut]

gues someone does not know what historical means .

[Rockingham Racer]

Tom,

Wasn't the running time from Penn Station about 15 minutes longer back when?

[TomNelligan]

Wasn't the running time from Penn Station about 15 minutes longer back when?

Yes, in NH days Penn Station trains typically had slightly longer running times than GCT trains. Aside from the greater mileage into the city via Hell Gate, many of them (but not the premier Boston-Washington Colonial and Senator) also carried heavy mail and express traffic that slowed them down. I should add for the benefit of those who weren't around then that in NH days most Boston trains operated out of Grand Central, and the switch to Penn Station as the primary New York station didn't come until the Penn Central era. The New Haven's fastest-ever schedule between Grand Central and South Station was just under 4 hours for a short time in the 1950s. Amazingly, that included time for an engine change in New Haven.