Amtrak Hiawatha Discussion: Chicago - Milwaukee and Possible Extensions

[EricL]

Eric who is doing the depot work? (Amtrak, cp, etc)

WisDOT is; they have owned the station and platforms since 2007. The general contractor is JP Cullen & Sons of Janesville, Wis. CP owns the tracks themselves and they have been doing the track work (presumably this is being paid for by the state as well)

WisDOT page on the trainshed project - unfortunately, not a lot of actually useful information here

[EricL]

Sep 30

[Balerion]

Wisconsin is considering adding three round-trips a day.

The rail service run by Amtrak currently has seven round trips each weekday, and has seen strong ridership. It logged 804,861 rides in 2014, an 8.5 percent increase over 2009. The Wisconsin Department of Transportation is preparing a study of increasing the number of daily trips to 10, said Arun Rao, Wisconsin DOT passenger rail manager.

[electricron]

If Wisconsin was to increase the number of round trips each day, would they need more equipment? How many train sets do they use today, how many will they need to support 10 round trips? Has Wisconsin ordered any new regional Superliners? If not, Wisconsin might need to lease, if that's the appropriate term, some more Horizon cars.

[GWoodle]

If Wisconsin was to increase the number of round trips each day, would they need more equipment? How many train sets do they use today, how many will they need to support 10 round trips? Has Wisconsin ordered any new regional Superliners? If not, Wisconsin might need to lease, if that's the appropriate term, some more Horizon cars.

For the 86 miles on a hour 20 minute trip there are some gaps if you want to run 2 trains every 2 hours then add in the Empire Builder for 1 more pair. not sure if some of the Hiawathas also share equipment with some of the other shorter Midwest services.

[Nicholas Chen]

They don't share equipemnt with other services. The Hiawatha arrives in the North end of Union Station and everything else is at the South end. Also, looking at the timetable, it looks like the train is timed to turn in about a half hour to an hour.

[CHTT1]

I believe the current Hiawatha schedule utilizes two sets of equipment. All coaches, mix of Horizon and Amfleet, six or seven cars per set. So the additional three roundtrips would probably mean another set of cars, I suppose. Wisconsin did not participate in the double-deck Midwest/California purchase. The Badger state put its money into two Talgo sets, which, thanks to Scott Walker, now sit in Beech Grove, unused and waiting for lawsuits to be settled.

[gokeefe]

Here's a link to reports on the additional frequencies from WTMJ-4 out of Milwaukee.

Amtrak could be adding more trips between Milwaukee and Chicago.

Right now, the Hiawatha line does seven round trips each weekday. But according to the Milwaukee Business Journal , the Wisconsin Department of Transportation (DOT) is considering increasing that to 10 trips each day.

Pretty impressive to consider adding frequencies on a corridor that already sees 800k riders per year.

[bdawe]

Isn't that sort of an argument for more frequencies?

[gokeefe]

It most certainly is! I was thinking about what a great increase in ridership the service would see. This could easily take the Hiawatha over 1 million annual riders. Not to mention the beneficial network effects. Additional departures each day will make it more likely that people will be comfortable taking the train for longer distances connecting through Chicago.

[electricron]

Considering, studying, and thinking about it doesn't mean they will actually do it.
800,000 riders per year is great for a corridor 86 miles in length. I'm not surprised there is 2,200 passengers (or 1,100 round trippers) wishing to go that far on average each day. 86 miles is a very good distance for trainsto be competitive with all other transportation choices, especially adjacent to congested highways.

[MisterUptempo]

I believe the current Hiawatha schedule utilizes two sets of equipment. All coaches, mix of Horizon and Amfleet, six or seven cars per set. So the additional three roundtrips would probably mean another set of cars, I suppose. Wisconsin did not participate in the double-deck Midwest/California purchase. The Badger state put its money into two Talgo sets, which, thanks to Scott Walker, now sit in Beech Grove, unused and waiting for lawsuits to be settled.

I believe everything has been hashed out between Talgo and the state of Wisconsin. From an article from bizjournals.com, posted on August 19, 2015-

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/ne ... enger.html

Invoking Fair Use, I include the following Cliffs Notes regarding the settlement. Follow the link for the full story.

Wisconsin and Talgo to settle lawsuit over passenger trains - Milwaukee - Milwaukee Business Journal


The state of Wisconsin and Talgo Inc. settled their lawsuit over two passenger trains the company manufactured to run between Milwaukee and Chicago.

-snip-

Under the agreement, Talgo will keep the two trains it built for the state of Wisconsin, and receive a $9.75 million payment from the state to close out the contract, said Lester Pines, attorney for Talgo. Talgo will attempt to sell the trains, and the state can collect a portion of the revenue from that sale to recoup up to $9.75 million, he said.

-snip-

Wisconsin, under the settlement agreement, can collect up to 30 percent of the price of their sale, not counting any costs Talgo takes on to prepare the vehicles for sale and close the deal, Pines said. Depending on the final sale price, the state can collect up to $9.75 million, which represents its final payment owed to Talgo under the manufacturing contract.

I understand that in addition to the nearly $10 million handed over to Talgo in the settlement, Talgo had already made $40 million for the trainsets themselves. Hmmmmm...$50 million forked out and got nothing in return. Well played, Scott Walker!

[electricron]

I understand that in addition to the nearly $10 million handed over to Talgo in the settlement, Talgo had already made $40 million for the trainsets themselves. Hmmmmm...$50 million forked out and got nothing in return. Well played, Scott Walker!

It's 86 miles between Chicago and Milwaukee. It's 80 miles between New Orleans and Baton Rouge. A little bit too far for comfort on commuter railcars? I wonder if Louisiana might be interested in these two Talgo train sets? There's very little else brand new out there' and ready to go for inter-city services.

[gokeefe]

I could see that happening.

[Woody]

I believe the current Hiawatha schedule utilizes two sets of equipment. All coaches, mix of Horizon and Amfleet, six or seven cars per set. So the additional three roundtrips would probably mean another set of cars, I suppose. Wisconsin did not participate in the double-deck Midwest/California purchase.

Well, as it turns out, looks like there'll be plenty of time for Wisconsin to order bi-levels and get about the same delivery dates as the other states.

Meanwhile, the delay could possibly encompass the start-up of the long-dreamed Chicago-Milwaukee-La Crosse-St Paul corridor train.

The three added Hiawatha frequencies might allow opening the Builder to some of this local 'corridor' traffic. It doesn't carry any riders on the short stretch now. But with 10 or 11 trains to work with, Julie and her team could sell available seats on the Builder at a higher price, and help its numbers.

Adding the Empire Builder and the St Paul corridor train would give riders 12 daily frequencies, for a very convenient schedule.