Does anybody know who supplies parts for Amfleet cars? Does Amtrak make their own when needed? Does Bombardier hold the patents on this fleet? Is there any relationship between Amtrak and Bombardier for this need?
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Amtrak did a LOT of rebuilding or re-conditioning in the 2000's of the Amfleets right in Delaware. The "capstone project" was pretty involved - both by Warrington and Gunn and their successors. As far as I know, that project was all done in Delaware. Interiors were pulled apart and re-done.......course I don't know what they did with the Amfleet II's as these cars didn't seem to get the same treatment - in general. A testament to that is a coach ride I recently took around New Year's on an Amfleet II and it felt like I was sitting on the seat without any sort of cushion.
pretty much all sheet metal and plumbing work is done in house, with easily available parts/material... same goes for most interior furnishings. Now, I don't know what they do about "custom" parts like the fiberglass shells for the bathrooms. Overall, there are more "off the shelf" parts available from vendors than you might expect. This is because said vendors also deal with commuter and even freight railroads. Everything from sliding end doors, to air brake components, to toilets (both blue water and vacuum models), to locomotive cab heaters... lots of this stuff can be bought more or less in one piece, ready to go. When stock parts can't be had, and specialty suppliers aren't available, then their choices are to either (a) fabricate from scratch, or (b) create some combination of stock parts and proprietary modifications, in order to make things work.
hey there guy
Companies such as WABCO (Wabtech), J.T. Nelson and Ellcon National all supply "off-the shelf" items for both passenger and freight equipment. Many products are adapted to older equipment as well.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
EricL wrote:pretty much all sheet metal and plumbing work is done in house, with easily available parts/material... same goes for most interior furnishings. Now, I don't know what they do about "custom" parts like the fiberglass shells for the bathrooms. Overall, there are more "off the shelf" parts available from vendors than you might expect. This is because said vendors also deal with commuter and even freight railroads. Everything from sliding end doors, to air brake components, to toilets (both blue water and vacuum models), to locomotive cab heaters... lots of this stuff can be bought more or less in one piece, ready to go. When stock parts can't be had, and specialty suppliers aren't available, then their choices are to either (a) fabricate from scratch, or (b) create some combination of stock parts and proprietary modifications, in order to make things work.Does Amtrak fabricate new bogies for the Amfleet cars from scratch, assemble them from spares, or buy new ones "off the shelf"?
TheOneKEA wrote: Does Amtrak fabricate new bogies for the Amfleet cars from scratch, assemble them from spares, or buy new ones "off the shelf"?Admittedly this isn't my department, but I don't know that brand new A-1 truck/bogie frames are even made at all anymore? Amtrak doesn't have its own forge, at least as far as I know! From my very limited knowledge of the Bear shops, it seems to me that their truck work is focused upon rebuilding existing. They certainly do have an impressive warehouse of parts, and this shop's labor force is easily capable of rebuilding an Amfleet truck from the frame up - assuming everything is in stock
hey there guy
The Pioneer IIIs are no longer available new, but the St. Louis Car-GSI 70 series trucks might still be available. The Comet Vs still had them new, but the Multilevels now use a heavier outboard truck.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
The truck castings will likely last forever. I'm sure that some units today ride on Blomberg trucks which were first under a FT. Parts for the heritage cars are 70 years old, and they are still viable. The parts needing replacement would be springs, bushings, and bearings.
Like the others said, airbrake equipment is standard. Wabco or Knorr (New York Airbrake) this stuff is pretty standardized.
Like the others said, airbrake equipment is standard. Wabco or Knorr (New York Airbrake) this stuff is pretty standardized.
R36 Combine Coach wrote:The Pioneer IIIs are no longer available new, but the St. Louis Car-GSI 70 series trucks might still be available. The Comet Vs still had them new, but the Multilevels now use a heavier outboard truck.It is generally considered Taboo to switch the trucks of a passenger car to one of a different design. I've heard attempting such a feat causes more problems than it fixes as the cars are designed with a certain truck in mind. That's why the Heritage fleet is still equipped with its 1950's swing-hanger trucks.
Enough P-III trucks became available on the used market when the LIRR and MNRR M-1's were scrapped. That freed up close to 2000 truck assemblies. PATCO bought a bunch and I am sure Amtrak topped up its supply as well.
Both above points are well made.
Trucks are mostly cast steel which can be ground and welded when fatigue cracks are caught early enough. If I recall, that was the nail in GG1's coffin - they couldn't do anymore welding on the trucks because they had done it so much already. In general, the trucks don't see critical wear, because the moving parts like bearings and wheels take the brunt of they physics. Wear on the trucks manifests itself in the form of wallowed-out kingpin holes and wheel mounts. You can tell this is happening on older equipment that has looser tolerances, so you hear a bit more noise and feel a bit more vibration.
This is all interesting in light of the recent Genesis truck debacle. Those are fabricated trucks, meaning pieces of steel were welded together to form the trucks as opposed to cast trucks, where liquid molten steel is poured into a truck-shaped giant mold. I think this was done to keep weight down but ulimately the design couldn't cope with hard use and the US railbed/track infrastructure. We don't have quite the precision infrastructure here that they do in Europe, where light fabricated trucks are common.
In my career I've spent a fair amount of time in truck-casting plants and they're DIRTY places. They redefine dirty. You walk out and you're covered in soot.
Anyway, given the durability of trucks and the fact that Amfleets may not make it another decade (we hope) they're probably not re-trucking anything soon unless there's a critical failure and a stock of spares. But I doubt you'll see any foundry making Pioneer trucks again.
Trucks are mostly cast steel which can be ground and welded when fatigue cracks are caught early enough. If I recall, that was the nail in GG1's coffin - they couldn't do anymore welding on the trucks because they had done it so much already. In general, the trucks don't see critical wear, because the moving parts like bearings and wheels take the brunt of they physics. Wear on the trucks manifests itself in the form of wallowed-out kingpin holes and wheel mounts. You can tell this is happening on older equipment that has looser tolerances, so you hear a bit more noise and feel a bit more vibration.
This is all interesting in light of the recent Genesis truck debacle. Those are fabricated trucks, meaning pieces of steel were welded together to form the trucks as opposed to cast trucks, where liquid molten steel is poured into a truck-shaped giant mold. I think this was done to keep weight down but ulimately the design couldn't cope with hard use and the US railbed/track infrastructure. We don't have quite the precision infrastructure here that they do in Europe, where light fabricated trucks are common.
In my career I've spent a fair amount of time in truck-casting plants and they're DIRTY places. They redefine dirty. You walk out and you're covered in soot.
Anyway, given the durability of trucks and the fact that Amfleets may not make it another decade (we hope) they're probably not re-trucking anything soon unless there's a critical failure and a stock of spares. But I doubt you'll see any foundry making Pioneer trucks again.
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
Jersey_Mike wrote: It is generally considered Taboo to switch the trucks of a passenger car to one of a different design. I've heard attempting such a feat causes more problems than it fixes as the cars are designed with a certain truck in mind. That's why the Heritage fleet is still equipped with its 1950's swing-hanger trucks.Yes, but there have been exceptions to this idea over time.
Enough P-III trucks became available on the used market when the LIRR and MNRR M-1's were scrapped. That freed up close to 2000 truck assemblies. PATCO bought a bunch and I am sure Amtrak topped up its supply as well.
Many railroads retrucked their heavyweight business cars with GSI OSH trucks. For those cars with older bolted pedestal trucks, that was a great upgrade. I think ATSF eventually retrucked some of their streamliner cars delivered with ISH trucks to OSH trucks.
I know of a private car owner who retrucked his heavyweight car of UP ancestry using four wheel ISH trucks reclaimed from a NYC baggage car. It worked well because all of the advance engineering work was properly done by competent people, followed by the right people doing the hands on truck replacement. Thus, it was all acceptable to Amtrak. Now he has two less wheelsets and other components to be concerned with.
I also know of a heavyweight private car that was retrucked from tread brake trucks to disc brake trucks years ago. The engineering was not done properly. One day someone discovered that the disc brake rotors of the car's new trucks impacted the car's center sill when the trucks traversed a piece of tightly curved track; that is not good!
Do the Amfleet trucks contain any large forgings?
jhdeasy wrote: Do the Amfleet trucks contain any large forgings?Not sure...what does it look like to you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Budd ... -truck.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jersey_Mike wrote: It is generally considered Taboo to switch the trucks of a passenger car to one of a different design. I've heard attempting such a feat causes more problems than it fixes as the cars are designed with a certain truck in mind. That's why the Heritage fleet is still equipped with its 1950's swing-hanger trucks.Maybe so, but isn't that essentially what Budd did by going from the Metroliner's outboard bearing trucks (still found on the cab cars) to the Pioneer trucks?
Here's an odd curiosity that my eagle eye noticed once while wasting time on youtube: an Amfleet with what appears to be the type of truck found on MARC's single level coaches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzxWr3kUY_c&t=6m48s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MJ and Everyone:
During the 1980s Amtrak did test some new truck designs on Amfleet cars...
I believe that they were European and Japanese types that were tested in the NEC...
Back in 1981 the AEM7s were brand new and on a related matter that color scheme they had
was in my opinion their best...
I also note the RDC used on the NHV-HFD-SPG shuttle and the new "Seldom-propelled vehicle" sitting in the NHV yard...Back then the NHV station facilities were in the underpass accessing trains and the building was closed...Thankfully Amtrak and MNCR brought back New Haven Union Station...
Back to Amfleet parts...
MACTRAXX
During the 1980s Amtrak did test some new truck designs on Amfleet cars...
I believe that they were European and Japanese types that were tested in the NEC...
Back in 1981 the AEM7s were brand new and on a related matter that color scheme they had
was in my opinion their best...
I also note the RDC used on the NHV-HFD-SPG shuttle and the new "Seldom-propelled vehicle" sitting in the NHV yard...Back then the NHV station facilities were in the underpass accessing trains and the building was closed...Thankfully Amtrak and MNCR brought back New Haven Union Station...
Back to Amfleet parts...
MACTRAXX
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS
most of the parts are off the shelf and McMaster Carr has lots of RR parts too
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