Developing the air rights over Sunnyside Yard

[Backshophoss]

If the plan was to build over Sunnyside including the former yard A(now the ESA yard and Arch street shop)
will take way too many billions of $$$$ to do. Granted it's an opinion by a developer,it will make
ESA and Boston's Big Dig costs seem like child's play,a crazy idea to begin with!

[num1hendrickfan]

Sunday's New York Times has a "quite interesting" Opinion, repeat Opinion, column suggesting that the New York City Convention Center be relocated to atop Sunnyside Yard. Aside from being likely the world's largest underground rail yard and further a source of otherwise avoidable employee injuries,

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/opini ... thing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brief passage:

The key is to replace the Javits Center. There’s been talk over the years of expanding it, but that won’t solve the affordability problem. Fortunately, the perfect undeveloped location for a new convention center exists at Sunnyside Yards, the more than 160-acre rail yard that carves a nasty scar through the heart of Queens.

Sunnyside Yards is adjacent to Long Island City, a neighborhood that has blossomed in recent years with new residents and businesses, including nearly 20 new hotels since 2007, with almost as many currently under construction or in the planning stages. The average hotel room rate in Queens is less than half that of Manhattan; a convention center on the border of Long Island City would go a long way toward solving the affordability problem that holds the Javits Center back.

No more railviewing approaching Penn Station - from both East and West (Hudson Yards)? "Sorry 'bout that".

Thankfully that's just an opinion, you'd have better odds expanding over the West Side Yards than building a new convention center over Sunnyside Yard. The Javits Center as it is has location going for it, being located 15-20 minutes from Pennsylvania Station, never mind the Manhattan hotels. However the structure is old and rehabilitation is only going to go so far, either an expanded center or a new center is needed. Hopefully they make the right choice though and choose the West Side Yard, which is a no brainer .

[ACeInTheHole]

Just be glad youre not the poo guy.

[SwingMan]

I hate to inform you, but West Side Yard is in the process of being covered over now, so the JJC is not moving over there.

[25Hz]

Clearly they should start considering building out on the river like many other cities have if space is such a premium. Moving the convention center to queens would be a mistake.

Sunnyside needs a huge renovation, and it needs a second layover yard for expanded services and fleets that are inevitable. That i would fully support.

I am now also curious about these steam tunnels......

[Greg Moore]

Clearly they should start considering building out on the river like many other cities have if space is such a premium. Moving the convention center to queens would be a mistake.

Sunnyside needs a huge renovation, and it needs a second layover yard for expanded services and fleets that are inevitable. That i would fully support.

I am now also curious about these steam tunnels......

Start?

Manhattan has been doing that for centuries.

Not entirely sure about Javitts, but I don't think that land existed a century or two ago. The area around the WTC didn't exist 1/2 a century ago.

[JoeG]

In downtown Manhattan the original shoreline on the East River was at Pearl St. On the Hudson side, the land west of Broadway was a marsh. That's why the Wall St wall ended at Broadway.

[dowlingm]

Di Blasio has been talking about this again (enough that Sunnyside Yards trended on my twitter).
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2015020 ... side-yards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In his State of the City address, the mayor said the city wants to build 11,250 affordable apartments at the 200-acre rail yard, comparing the proposal to the original mission of housing developments like Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village.

Came across this article from November while looking through tweets on it:
http://newyorkyimby.com/2014/11/afforda ... -yard.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While YIMBY will of course cheer on any project to build new homes in this housing-starved city, there are reasons to be skeptical that a deal will be reached. Between the cost of building a deck and the city and Amtrak’s competing interests in the site, developing the rail yard will likely leave many unsatisfied, if a plan can be agreed upon at all.

Meanwhile, a former congressman has chimed in:
https://twitter.com/anthonyweiner/statu ... 2041235458" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And what sounds like a nuh-uh from the Governor's direction:
https://twitter.com/TheChiefDRosenb/sta ... 1961116673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is all of the Sunnyside complex owned by Amtrak or are parts of it owned by MTA?

[ApproachMedium]

The Sunnyside yard as you see it today, is amtrak. The old Yard A, which is torn up for ESA projects, where LIRR stored freight and passenger trains I believe is property of the MTA. There are trackage rights and joint agreements between Amtrak and MTA over Q tower interlocking where trains have access to leave the yard as well as the North Runner. I dont think that the MTA has access via the loops or R tower though.

[DogBert]

At best this will happen in 20 years.

There are a ton of competing interests looking at the rail yard as a virtual real estate gold mine. Developers I'm sure would love rights to build high rise high end apartments. A convention center? I don't see why we need another. The 7 line extension to javitis will open soon enough too. There has been talk of placing a major transit hub at sunnyside for decades, and what has come of that? Absolutely nothing.

Amtrak has probably made good money building over the cut on the west side of manhattan - it used to be all open air - now there's more buildings from 34th to 72nd streets over the tracks than there are open air cuts. They could make a lot off air rights over sunnyside.

And that's kind of the problem. All these people have dollar signs in their eyes and just want the payout. 'NIMBYS' aren't really nimbys at all in this case. There are a lot of valid concerns regarding traffic, infrastructure, etc. There are currently proposals to build in high rises in willets point, a new air train to LGA, and now this - all along the 7 subway line which is already a sardine can running at 2 minute headways on a rickety elevated. I suspect the people of west queens would be ok with more development IF it were matched with increased services (new transit routes). So far all these politicians (and the megarich real estate interests) just talk about cramming more and more people in without any improvements. Hell, look at all the new high rises in LIC today compared to 10 years ago. Did the city even bother to reopen the firehouse they closed nearby? Nope... How many feeder cables has Con Ed added (west queens had an 8 day blackout just a few years ago due to bad wiring)? How many sewer lines have been added?

More people = less services is not a good equation, unless you're looking to build cash in and get out, not having to live with the fiasco that follows.

[Hawaiitiki]

At best this will happen in 20 years.

There are a ton of competing interests looking at the rail yard as a virtual real estate gold mine. Developers I'm sure would love rights to build high rise high end apartments. A convention center? I don't see why we need another. The 7 line extension to javitis will open soon enough too.

The Javits Center is slowly( but slower than Penn at least) becoming obsolete for the needs of the NYC Metro, and is unable to grow at the current location. It wouldn't be another convention center in Queens, it would be THE convention. Whether they'd use Javits or not for ancillary service, that obviously remains to be seen.

[dowlingm]

The Sunnyside yard as you see it today, is amtrak. The old Yard A, which is torn up for ESA projects, where LIRR stored freight and passenger trains I believe is property of the MTA. There are trackage rights and joint agreements between Amtrak and MTA over Q tower interlocking where trains have access to leave the yard as well as the North Runner. I dont think that the MTA has access via the loops or R tower though.

thanks ApproachMedium - I did note reference to ESA in one article.

[4400Washboard]

Di Blasio has been talking about this again (enough that Sunnyside Yards trended on my twitter).
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2015020 ... side-yards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In his State of the City address, the mayor said the city wants to build 11,250 affordable apartments at the 200-acre rail yard, comparing the proposal to the original mission of housing developments like Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village.

Gah! I don't want to see my neighborhood turned into land dominated by apartments. Those apartments will take away what's left of Sunnyside's charm (The actual neighborhood isn't all that sunny in the first place anyway)...

Anyway, I'm skeptical that his plan may go forward (In the short term), but further down the road, there may be affordable housing built there on top of the yards.

[DogBert]

This thing is going to face a huge amount of 'nimby' backlash, and rightly so.
http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2015/02/ ... aster.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2015/02/ ... -plan.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's insulting how these elected morons talk about the place. 'Undeveloped'? It was 'developed' 100 years ago...

[4400Washboard]

This thing is going to face a huge amount of 'nimby' backlash, and rightly so.
http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2015/02/ ... aster.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2015/02/ ... -plan.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's insulting how these elected morons talk about the place. 'Undeveloped'? It was 'developed' 100 years ago...

And I am one of them (Call me a hypocrite I don't care). Sunnyside has been developed since 1909 and a good deal of it was built in 1924.