AMTRAK NEC: Springfield Shuttle/Regional/Valley Flyer/Inland Routing

[Backshophoss]

From pics I've seen in Catgirl's blog and when traversing I-84 in the past,there are 2 tracks at platform level now
(low platform),is one of the tracks unusable due to structure issues?

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

From pics I've seen in Catgirl's blog and when traversing I-84 in the past,there are 2 tracks at platform level now
(low platform),is one of the tracks unusable due to structure issues?

It's been 1 track up there for well over 20 years. Mid-90's or earlier.




There is a spur track that ends about 50 feet north of the station, pointing at the other island platform that's been abandoned way way longer. It's connected to the Griffins switch and not the Springfield Line.

[NH2060]

Re: this NYP-Me service. If you put a loop track at "West Station" / Beacon Park, you could run the trains east through Back Bay --> (bypass congested South Station) --> via Dorchester Branch --> Providence / NEC. With a stop at Kendall, "West", and Back Bay, a "GLX crossing" station, perhaps time could be saved by bypassing North Station. This is a long route, so getting the fastest route seems most important. The fastest route may evolve over time as tracks are upgraded to a more inland routing. At rush hour this kind of routing should be very competitive. Off peak, buses running I93-I95 would be faster. Would via Springfield or via Providence be faster?

This would never work for a number of reasons:

1) The Dorchester Branch is due for increased frequencies (perhaps 10-15 minute headways) in the near future so finding a slot will be harder than even on the NEC east of New Haven.

2) Traversing the leg of the wye east of Back Bay and crossing over multiple tracks is easier said than done considering the density of the service there. In between Amtrak and the Providence/Stoughton, Franklin, Needham, and Framingham/Worcester Lines there's only so much room for any additional trains.

3) Installing a loop track for just one train makes no sense at all. And the old rail yard is getting developed along with the Mass Pike getting re-aligned it just isn't going to happen.

Now IF Amtrak/NNEPRA have a hard time convincing CSX to let them have a pair of slots allocated for a train to/from NYC from/to Maine then you can think about Providence-Worcester-Grand Jct. MA owns the ROW east of Worcester so very little CSX track would need to be utilized. That could prevent of ton of issues. However, the problem with such a routing include too many seats getting used up by intra-NEC riders south of PVD so unless the train were to run with 8 cars or so Worcester-CT-NYC and WOR-Maine riders could get shut out. Not to mention it's not exactly a straight shot between PVD and WOR along with the fact that it would need upgrading to get it to pax train standards. Also with the Conn River drawbridge due for replacement down the road that'll potentially affect schedules so it could run into trouble there.

Why has no one proposed skipping North Station, taking the Grand Junction (assuming it is rebuilt to passenger standards) to Beacon Park, and backing to South Station as a waypoint for NYP-POR service? Five miles is a long backup to protect, but certainly doable. And, anyone that has an urgent appointment in Boston can take a train from Woburn to BON.

Why on earth would you want to do THAT? If you're going to back into anything it's North Station. It's right THERE as the Grand Jct. leads more or less directly to it. To skip BON would mean either backing out and reversing there anyway OR running over a built/rebuilt connection (as I suggested previously in this thread) to/from either the Fitchburg or Haverhill lines, going over the Grand Jct., backing ALL the way east to South Station, and then backing forward again through Back Bay to the NEC (or vise versa if going northbound). It's almost like trying to re-invent the wheel.

My main beef with stopping @ Boston at all is the risk of too many seats getting taken up by intra-region passengers (i.e. Downeaster riders who won't be going to Worcester, Springfield, Hartford, etc.). IF they run the train with more than enough coaches then I don't have an issue with North Station being a stop and therefore an additional option for DE riders.

The blow-up map isn't loading for me for some reason today, but here's the gist of it:
-- Past Park St. where the tracks/busway and current highway converge is start of project limits. Highway sunk into a cut here so the Aetna Viaduct can come down.
-- Capitol Ave. reconstructed here to daylight it from all the ramps and rail overpasses it goes under.
-- Between Laurel St. and Sigourney St. 84 and the tracks converge into a single unified cut.
-- Instead of passing under, the tracks get realigned to stay in the cut bolted to 84 West along the current sunken highway between Broad St. and Asylum St. Somewhere around here the busway is reconstructed to turn out onto the street grid.
-- Between Asylum and Church St./Myrtle St. the tracks go into a new station cavern, opposite the block from current Union Station. I would guess future-proofed for at least 4 platform tracks + a freight passing track.

With Providence having that exact set-up this would do well for Hartford too. Easier to have the extra capacity now than trying to do it when they absolutely need it (which could likely come not long after the project is completed).

-- The station becomes an air rights super-block: http://goo.gl/maps/ILnAo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. So the triangle between Spring St. and Spruce St. at the entrance to the current station gets decked over, some new parking lot or garage goes up, the new train station bunker and the existing station building get connected with walkways across the parcel, and it becomes an even bigger station complex with the old train station just serving the buses and tix offices.
-- Tracks spit out of the bunker after Church St. with enough running room for the wye track to be reinstated to the Griffins Branch and tracks meet back on the current alignment at Hoadley Pl.
-- Old tracks in Bushnell Park demolished for more parkland, and I'm guessing the old RR viaduct over Asylum and Church becomes some sort of grade-separated path out of Bushnell Park.


Add 15 years and whatever billions that'll take to finish, but that's pretty much their preferable option. Trains would no longer stop at the old station and would be in a somewhat dank little bunker, but the old station would still be the all-modes transportation center...and a much bigger one at that since it would span the whole block and deck over the highway. So in the real world it's quite a bit of a net-gain for intercity travelers and an enhancement in status for the old station despite the trains being relocated off the roof.

Sounds like a combination of the Providence station re-alignment/trench, the Southwest Corridor, and the Big Dig all in one

[Literalman]

I hope that the Massachusetts and Connecticut local services will be integrated as much as possible with through running. Two distinct brands with through passengers changing at Springfield is not going to be as passenger-friendly as one service with more city-pair choices offering direct service.

[amtrak-wnd]

Can we please move this Maine discussion to another thread? It's getting hard to follow the discussion related to upgrades on the Springfield Line with all this off topic stuff peppered in

[The EGE]

Springfield's pretty much the break point for local ridership demand; there's not a lot of people who are going to be commuting from Noho to Enfield. Springfield to New Haven is 80 to 95 minutes on current trains; four additional station stops (Enfield, Newington, North Haven, and the dedicated NHHS platform at State Street that got funded last year) will cancel out any speed improvements from the current work. So that's as long as you potentially want to sit in a 3x2 commuter rail seat. And the full 2.5-3 hour run from New Haven to Greenfield would be difficult for schedule keeping too.

The Shuttles and Springfield-terminating Northeast Regionals, though, should definitely get extended to Brattleboro once they can shed a few local stops to the commuter trains. Fewer stops and comfier seats designed for true intercity service.

The one case where through-running locals might make sense is if Connecticut put any effort whatsoever into making Bradley transit accessible. There aren't even buses from Windsor Locks to the terminals; you have to ride from Hartford. Step one you run a dedicated shuttle bus from the station, meeting every train. The 91 exits are perfectly aligned to use the airport connector road, but if there are no scheduled intermediate stops you can use local roads as a backup on the days that 91 is a parking lot. Then you start thinking about extending that existing spur across Light Lane and getting it close enough to the terminals for usability. And then you can think about through-running some Pioneer Valley trains to the Airport, timed for early-morning business travelers and airport workers.

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Springfield's pretty much the break point for local ridership demand; there's not a lot of people who are going to be commuting from Noho to Enfield. Springfield to New Haven is 80 to 95 minutes on current trains; four additional station stops (Enfield, Newington, North Haven, and the dedicated NHHS platform at State Street that got funded last year) will cancel out any speed improvements from the current work. So that's as long as you potentially want to sit in a 3x2 commuter rail seat. And the full 2.5-3 hour run from New Haven to Greenfield would be difficult for schedule keeping too.

The Shuttles and Springfield-terminating Northeast Regionals, though, should definitely get extended to Brattleboro once they can shed a few local stops to the commuter trains. Fewer stops and comfier seats designed for true intercity service.

The one case where through-running locals might make sense is if Connecticut put any effort whatsoever into making Bradley transit accessible. There aren't even buses from Windsor Locks to the terminals; you have to ride from Hartford. Step one you run a dedicated shuttle bus from the station, meeting every train. The 91 exits are perfectly aligned to use the airport connector road, but if there are no scheduled intermediate stops you can use local roads as a backup on the days that 91 is a parking lot. Then you start thinking about extending that existing spur across Light Lane and getting it close enough to the terminals for usability. And then you can think about through-running some Pioneer Valley trains to the Airport, timed for early-morning business travelers and airport workers.

Windsor Locks station is going to be relocated to the area up the street by the historic station. I believe they are planning to start running shuttles. Straight shot down Route 140, 5 minutes, easy to time with train arrivals. The trains will be frequent enough by then to make it a must-have timed to every NHHS and Amtrak train. It'll really increase Bradley's utilization.


I doubt we're going to see a direct-to-terminal rail dinky for a long time. CDOT likes the idea and CSO has made overtures about running it in exchange for freight upgrades...but it just won't beat a shuttle bus from a better-positioned, better-amenities Windsor Locks station. You end up traveling almost 6 miles on the Bradley Branch to go 3 miles. And it's not useful to terminate service from the north there when Greenfield-Hartford is about the same distance as Springfield-New Haven. Hartford really needs to be the hub of it all if there's mixing and matching of NHHS and Knowledge Corridor commuter rail. I actually think MassDOT's plan for north-of-Springfield commuter rail doesn't have quite enough ridership to justify itself unless it crosses one state line: either Springfield-Brattleboro involving VTrans as a partner, or Greenfield-Hartford involving CDOT as a partner (maybe skipping Enfield and Windsor and just hitting Bradley and Hartford south of Springfield).

[Ridgefielder]

Why will the Hartford viaduct and the Conn River Bridge still remain single tracked? (I'm having a difficult time following what everyone else is saying )

Not sure about the Conn River bridge, but the viaduct dates to the 1889 construction of the current Union Station, suffered from years of deferred maintenance, and is now structurally inadequate and incapable of supporting two trains simultaneously.

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Why will the Hartford viaduct and the Conn River Bridge still remain single tracked? (I'm having a difficult time following what everyone else is saying )

Not sure about the Conn River bridge, but the viaduct dates to the 1889 construction of the current Union Station, suffered from years of deferred maintenance, and is now structurally inadequate and incapable of supporting two trains simultaneously.

CT River bridge dates to 1903. Overdue for repair but it's structurally decent enough for a rehabilitation of the existing structure and does not need outright replacement, which will keep the cost from being anywhere near as onerous as the NEC movable bridge replacements that are sapping CDOT's and Amtrak's resources. No speed restrictions on the bridge itself because the sharp curves immediately on either side are the ruling speed limits for the crossing; nothing needs to be done to it to enhance speeds because the curves prevent it from going any higher than the 25-30 MPH it is now. Unfortunately the bridge rehab isn't in any of the unfunded to-do's for the Springfield Line, so that's an entirely outside appropriation. And with north-of-Hartford double tracking still not fully funded, they've got to get another funding dump on Amtrak/NHHS-specific to-do's before they can go after the bridge.

CDOT is trying to enhance the priority for the rehab by grouping it as a top freight priority. It's the last weight restriction on the Springfield Line preventing 286K loads from traveling from Springfield to Hartford Yard. CNZR's Griffin's Branch is 286K as is (nominally) the CSO Bradley Branch. Manchester Secondary and Armory Branch both get their weight limits raised to that after the ongoing rehab of CSO's CT River bridge to East Hartford is done in 2015, and Pan Am gains 286K to Springfield on the Conn River and on the mainline to Ayer in 2015. While nothing heavy's ever going to travel south of Hartford until this I-84 project is completed God knows when, it's pretty critical for the shortline interchanges in Hartford/Springfield to be able to receive heavy goods lest CSX and PAS start to lose interest in increasing business at those interchanges. That may boost the priority of bridge rehab funding (or at least a down payment on it) next time there's a round of TIGER grant applications.

[shadyjay]

Windsor Locks station is going to be relocated to the area up the street by the historic station.

Has this been confirmed? Last time I checked, the Windsor Locks station plans had two proposals: an upgrade of the existing Amtrak "station", andd a relocation to be adjacent to the original NH station. While it would be great to see the historic station site utilized, with the station restored (for railroad use, though the trend is more towards "platform-only with shelter" stations), the existing Amtrak "station" does offer an existing parking lot and has very easy access to/from I-91 for any Bradley shuttles (though the distance via backroads from the historic station may be comparable. The historic station, while more downtown than the existing stop, lacks any existing parking facility and constraints between Route 159, the railroad, the station, and the canal limit what can be done on railroad-owned property.

Regardless, I'm sure the "status quo" will remain until funding for full service north of Hartford gets locked in (including double track, Windsor and Windsor Locks station upgrades, and the new Thompsonville station).

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Windsor Locks station is going to be relocated to the area up the street by the historic station.

Has this been confirmed? Last time I checked, the Windsor Locks station plans had two proposals: an upgrade of the existing Amtrak "station", andd a relocation to be adjacent to the original NH station. While it would be great to see the historic station site utilized, with the station restored (for railroad use, though the trend is more towards "platform-only with shelter" stations), the existing Amtrak "station" does offer an existing parking lot and has very easy access to/from I-91 for any Bradley shuttles (though the distance via backroads from the historic station may be comparable. The historic station, while more downtown than the existing stop, lacks any existing parking facility and constraints between Route 159, the railroad, the station, and the canal limit what can be done on railroad-owned property.

Regardless, I'm sure the "status quo" will remain until funding for full service north of Hartford gets locked in (including double track, Windsor and Windsor Locks station upgrades, and the new Thompsonville station).

http://wlmainstreet.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... pdate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Last update on WL station, from a year-and-a-half ago, is that the relocation to the historic site is still planned. Amtrak (which still owns the historic station building) had an agreement to sell it to the town, town had an architectural firm designing the building restoration, and there was a confab with state officials about fast-tracking the EIS for the site. So looks like they're at least proceeding at the town level as if that's going to be the only site considered, and are trying to square paperwork with the state while everything Hartford-north is on hold. I haven't seen any news more current than that, but the town doesn't exactly have a lot of documents online. Most recent conceptual design for the station was 2009 with a 110-space parking lot where Route 159 starts to bend away from the river, provisioned for future decking-over for a parking garage. With the little strip plaza next door being taken for TOD. I have no idea if the concept has evolved at all since then.

Gov. Malloy did tour the Enfield/Thompsonville station site at Bigelow Commons earlier this year. That one's getting expedited brownfields cleanup despite likewise being in limbo on any official start until DT north-of-Hartford is funded.

I would guess it's all going to come down to what order they do the 3 north-of-Hartford stations. Does Windsor ADA and 2nd platforms go first because that station has the least amount of total modification to get ready? Does Enfield go first because it's the infill with the most new riders and pre-built adjacent TOD to tap? And so on... There's probably less urgency to do Windsor Locks in a rush since the current station does have some parking, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the last of the three that gets done.

[CVRA7]

Regrading [b]Windsor Locks[/b], I agree with Shady Jay's statement. I will add that there is no longer a real "downtown" remaining in Windsor Locks - years ago a choice was made there to "tear-down" instead of "fix-up." Suffield residents would be better served by the old station location though.
As far as the Transystems proposal for [b]Hartford[/b] goes, what the artist's conception shows is nothing less than a slap in the face for passenger rail. My first thought was "similar to Providence" - moving away from downtown. But this is also moving the platforms away not only downtown but also the capital and most importantly also away from the station itself.
I vote for rebuilding the station viaduct up to 21st century standard, with four in-service tracks. Move all railroad and bus ticketing operations into the old station building from underneath the viaduct, rebuild the viaduct 2 tracks at a time, and keep the area under the new viaduct free from buildings other than a large passageway from the station to trains and busses. Keep all transportation functions in a common area - make them user friendly! We don't need an expanded Bushnell Park - we need track closer to downtown.
The Capital Region of Connecticut has alway had a tough time thinking beyond rubber tires - hence the busway - and this plan shows that little has changed.
One other item in the new "Hartford Line" (which I totally agree with) branding: "CT rail" - guess this replaced the "Connecticut Commuter Rail" name with something far less focused on just commuters.

[CVRA7]

Regarding the former Windsor Locks station building, I heard that Amtrak was in the process of selling it to the town of W L for a dollar. Not sure if this was done. Word is out that this affects the state wishing to purchase the current Berlin Station from owner Amtrak. And also pay Amtrak a dollar for a station, like Windsor Locks. Amtrak wishes to sell Berlin for "fair market value" and judging from its present condition (leaky roof, decaying wood trim, decaying brick on its exterior never mind what may be inside) the fair market value may be approaching a dollar!

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Regrading Windsor Locks, I agree with Shady Jay's statement. I will add that there is no longer a real "downtown" remaining in Windsor Locks - years ago a choice was made there to "tear-down" instead of "fix-up." Suffield residents would be better served by the old station location though.
As far as the Transystems proposal for Hartford goes, what the artist's conception shows is nothing less than a slap in the face for passenger rail. My first thought was "similar to Providence" - moving away from downtown. But this is also moving the platforms away not only downtown but also the capital and most importantly also away from the station itself.
I vote for rebuilding the station viaduct up to 21st century standard, with four in-service tracks. Move all railroad and bus ticketing operations into the old station building from underneath the viaduct, rebuild the viaduct 2 tracks at a time, and keep the area under the new viaduct free from buildings other than a large passageway from the station to trains and busses. Keep all transportation functions in a common area - make them user friendly! We don't need an expanded Bushnell Park - we need track closer to downtown.
The Capital Region of Connecticut has alway had a tough time thinking beyond rubber tires - hence the busway - and this plan shows that little has changed.
One other item in the new "Hartford Line" (which I totally agree with) branding: "CT rail" - guess this replaced the "Connecticut Commuter Rail" name with something far less focused on just commuters.

The bunker plan IS a combined transit facility. The highway gets sunken there and decked for air rights like the Trumbull-Main St. block.


But it's moot. They priced out the I-84 concepts and it was nearly another billion dollars to thread the train tracks around a sunken highway twice in 5 blocks for sole purpose of keeping the trains on the existing platforms. And priced out almost exactly the same for rebuilding the highway viaduct in-place. It is actually the least-expensive option to relocate the tracks to stay north of the highway the whole way through downtown and do that underground station conjoined to the old building + bus terminal on the air rights block than it was to force-fit. So given that there are NO other options beyond letting I-84 collapse and kill a few thousand people, the Providence-style station was the best of the available conceptual options and got the most public support.

Sorry. Your own aesthetic preferences were well-considered. And they're not fundable. Not fundable by 10 figures. Deal with it. The train station's not going away as the all-modes transportation center. If it takes a 300 ft. walkway or people-mover to save a billion dollars, save the billion dollars. That's not a hard call.

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

Regarding the former Windsor Locks station building, I heard that Amtrak was in the process of selling it to the town of W L for a dollar. Not sure if this was done. Word is out that this affects the state wishing to purchase the current Berlin Station from owner Amtrak. And also pay Amtrak a dollar for a station, like Windsor Locks. Amtrak wishes to sell Berlin for "fair market value" and judging from its present condition (leaky roof, decaying wood trim, decaying brick on its exterior never mind what's inside) the fair market value may be approaching a dollar!

Don't know about Berlin, but the WL deal was for $1. Amtrak agreed to that because the town already hired the architectural firm on their own to start designing the restoration, and transacting the building was what was needed to square the Amtrak liability for allowing them onsite. They were happy to do so; they didn't want to deal with the building even if it was going to be generating them future tix revenue. Whether the final-final station location does go there or not, the building is going to be restored as part of the downtown redevelopment plan. So they can proceed on that much of it while actual track work and platforms north-of-Hartford are still in funding deep-freeze.