AMTRAK NEC: Springfield Shuttle/Regional/Valley Flyer/Inland Routing

[daybeers]

Good post; sums things up nicely. Boston to Spg CR will never happen; too far, too curvy, not enough population in
between. Maybe could toss in one or two three car trains each way for day trip service, if that.

I believe njt/mnrrbuff was talking about having the service run all the way to Pittsfield. We'll have to see what three plans the committee chooses to move forward with in the study. But that's for discussion here.

The Valley flyer is clearly being designed to fail. If they wanted it to work, they would have given it a usable northbound commuter schedule and some kind of marketing like the Downeaster. They’re simply putting forth a token effort to mollify the people who want to see the new stations get used. Once they get the (expected) low ridership they can claim it didn’t work and kibosh it, thereby making the Peter Pan folks happy. Truly sad.

I completely agree with this and the rest of the comments on how the Valley Flyer service is designed to fail: from the dismal schedule, to the lame announcement and bungled high-level Platform C construction at SPG that wasn't finished by the time the service started, to the $250k NYC marketing firm. Have they done anything? I'd imagine advertising doesn't work well when the service has a terrible schedule.

[ThirdRail7]

It sounds like ridership on those Valley Flyer trains have been dismal. It seems that it's more catered toward people who live north of Springfield along the Connecticut River Valley in MA who want to make a long daytrip to NYC for business. That's not just where the market should end. Aren't there a lot of universities north of Springfield? There are no northbound rail options in the am to Holyoke, Northampton, and Greenfield as well as the reverse in the afternoon for those people attending classes at the schools as well as professors teaching there.

This was always a thorn in my side. I have a good friend in Granby and she mentioned the same thing. It isn't usable for people that may want to go north to the various colleges in the morning and return in the evening/afternoon. She works at Mount Holyoke College and has heard the same lament from a lot of students.

[lordsigma12345]

Personally I think discussion of east-west rail is more properly under an Intercity passenger rail section rather than under the MBTA section and some discussion is also appropriate in this thread as there is the potential for Boston service to be an extension of existing Amtrak service, there is absolutely no decision whatsoever or indication that such a route would be run by or have anything to do with the MBTA - in fact I doubt it will. People just seem to assume that because the MBTA operates commuter service out to Worcester, but extension of commuter rail out to Springfield doesn't seem like the bet way to do it due to the number of stops between WOR and BOS. This will most likely be a MassDOT funded intercity passenger route - not commuter rail. Whether they would give it to Amtrak like they did with the VF, or if they would take bids from Amtrak and Keolis to run it obviously is another matter. But given Amtrak's operation of routes from New Haven to Springfield as well as the presence of Amtrak in Albany, I think making such a route an Amtrak corridor is more appropriate given the potential connections to the existing New Haven - Springfield service as well as the potential to connect some service to Albany.

[njtmnrrbuff]

I think what needs to be done is the timing of service change. If the current pilot service is discontinued, then maybe CDOT and MassDot should seriously look into this. On Mondays through Fridays, have the two southbound shuttles, but have the first one head south in the morning-not too early but not too late. Keep the Vermonter in the same timeslot. The second southbound morning Greenfield-New Haven shuttle train-have that depart Greenfield in the late afternoon or early evening. This would be great for students taking classes at the universities and professors working there. As for the northbounds, instead of running both Valley Flyer trains in the evening, have one leave New Haven early in the morning-maybe like 7 am. Keep the Vermonter in the slot that it is in presently. As for the evening Valley Flyer, I wouldn't have it arrive in the towns north of Springfield too late(maybe in the 9:00-10:00 range is fine). Of course, there are many variables that need to come into play. First, Amtrak must play around with Metro North south of New Haven. Amtrak must coordinate their schedules with Metro North. Next, on the Springfield Line, there are many stretches of the line that aren't double track-mostly between Windsor and Springfield. Even the south end of the Springfield Line, Hartford Station is single track and will remain that way until the right of way and station is relocated into a tunnel. South of Hartford Station, there is like a mile of single track with a freight siding and hopefully in the short term, the freight siding will be converted into a second passenger main and that would help somewhat.

[Backshophoss]

As long as there's no final design on I-84 in Hartford,nothing can be done on the ROW,the "trench" seems to be the leading plan,
but untill ConnDOT and Hartford city government stop waffling on I-84 plan,Amtrak waits.......and prays that viaduct stays intact.

[lordsigma12345]

Also, as a pilot program, the Valley Flyer is limited by available trains running to and from Springfield that can be realistically extended north.

[njtmnrrbuff]

The railroad viaduct at the Harford Station isn't in the best shape. The second track there should have never been ripped up from the start.

[JcPinCT]

The railroad viaduct at the Harford Station isn't in the best shape. The second track there should have never been ripped up from the start.

Let’s all hope that the viaduct holds up or some funds are allocated to keep it functional because the I-84 redesign is back to square one and is most likely at least a decade away from any project groundbreaking.

[lordsigma12345]

The Connecticut River bridge is also in need of some T.L.C.

[Backshophoss]

So the "trench" is not in the plans now,the Hartford viaduct has to last 10 more years, not good
Just about the only Detour route is PAR's Waterbury "branch" via Bristol and MN to Devon for Amtrak to use in a pinch
if that viaduct collapses.

[The EGE]

The route via Bristol meets the NH-S Line south of Hartford - it would not be a detour route. The only active detour route would be via Middletown, and much of that is not in great shape.

[daybeers]

The only viable route into Hartford is through the viaduct. The "Greater Hartford Mobility Study" that CTDOT announced a little while back has only just kicked the can down the road for the I-84 rebuild design another few years, and I agree that we won't see groundbreaking for around 10 years. It's just really frustrating politics veiled under the guise of considering other modes of transportation instead of just the car which is total BS IMO. They should have been considering these modes anyway like walking, biking, and scooters, and key modes that are already fairly well implemented and used in Hartford like buses and trains.

I am also worried about the state of the viaduct. The second track shouldn't have been ripped up but did Amtrak have a choice or was it to save on maintenance costs like all the other track they ripped up? Certainly it could not support a second track now, and I'm worried about it even holding one track over the next 10-15 years, which is an absolutely ridiculous timeline for adding a second track through Hartford. I'm deeply concerned. Traffic is already absolutely horrible, trust me, I live near the I-84 Hartford section.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Looking at a google map of the Waterbury/Bristol/Hartford area, it looks like there aren't any other good rail route options for the trains to Springfield to take. Having Amtrak trains take MNR's Waterbury Branch and then the line through Bristol and New Britain looks like it would take forever. In the end, I don't think CDOT would want MNR trains to detour on the Waterbury Branch, even when the sidings are completed. They might not be enough to have both frequent MNR and Amtrak trains. It looks like the line that runs through Bristol and New Britain will hook up with the existing Springfield Line just east of New Britain which means that trains would be running on the viaduct at Hartford Station.

I really hope that the viaduct doesn't collapse in the short term or even the next ten years. A lot of me is saying that that won't happen. If CDOT is going to have Amtrak build the future right of way underground exactly where the new highway overpasses will go over, then maybe it would be time to just start constructing the new right of way and new Hartford Station before the highway infrastructure gets started with construction.

[east point]

It has been too long.. I remember the second track iron work with all track and cross ties removed. However what is the mostly likely failure points of the present 1 track ?. Are the columns OK or not ? Are both tracks iron works on the same column supports ? Can Amtrak replace the ironwork girders on the out of service track locations without causing problems ? So in other words what is the present weakest point(s)?

[Backshophoss]

Add the New Britain secondary(CSX or CSOR) and you wind up North of Hartford at Waterbury Switch.
Avoids that viaduct.
This was used by PAR to get overweight loads to Waterbury.