Amtrak NEC Inland, Springfield Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield Route

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njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:19 pm

Well, there is a plan for CDOT to order new equipment for Ctrail service. As for the Amfleets, in Amtrak's five year plan, the Amfleets are going to be retired.

Yes, on the first day of Ctrail Hartford Line operations, a four car Mafersa set was used to protect an Amtrak Shuttle set. Don't be surprised if that happens here and there, especially around Thanksgiving. The Springfield Line seems to be doing very well with Amtrak ridership and Ctrail, not too badly.

As for return of Inland Route service, what was the reason for the trains being discontinued? Was it that not enough people were going from Boston to NYP by way of the Inland Route which takes longer than the Shoreline. Remember, it's not just about going from Boston to NYP. There are probably people who live in and around Framingham who want to go to NYP as well as other cities like New Haven and Stamford who don't want to either backtrack to Boston or drive to Rt. 128 University Park Station. Worcester has a lot of potential to generate very healthy ridership along the Inland Route because there are many universities there and its a city that probably has a lot of tourism and corporations. Worcester is basically in no mans land when you want to take an Amtrak to New York. If you want to take the train to NYP, you are probably better off driving to Providence or even Springfield. Having Inland Service restored would also enable connections to Vermont as well.

east point
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by east point » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:09 pm

Do not expect more Amtrak service on MNRR New Haven - Rochelle. Remember that there are going to be for 10 years or longer sections over the various draw bridge replacements. Walk bridge work is posted to have intermittent 2 track operation for a total of 30 ? months. If Amtrak can get any more trains thru that section(s) it will certainly be additional BOS <> NYP trains exceeding the present 39 train limit. Train lengths to / from BOS are really limited. Now if quick connection track work can be installed at New Haven then Springfield line trans could be added / subtracted to NER trains at New Haven.

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asull85
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by asull85 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:19 am

Cars won't be added to the shuttles until the platform work in Springfield is complete.

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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by daybeers » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:39 am

Is Amtrak and CDOT any closer to coming to an agreement on the SLE M-8s?

Also, mods, shouldn't this be in the Hartford Line/NHHS topic?

east point
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by east point » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:37 pm

CT DOT does not have enough M-8s for present service much less allocating some for SLE trains. It is debatable if the present order for more M-8s will be enough assign them to SLE trains. Appears doubtful ? The new ones probably will have the switching and transformer taps for operation east of New Haven ?

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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by DutchRailnut » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:19 pm

actually the 24 SLE cars are currently running in MN pool , but they are SLE cars no matter what .
car numbers are 9600 till 9623 it will take a lot more than getting these 24 cars accepted by Amtrak as entire fleet is in one pool .
all 405 or so M-8's will need to be accepted for SLE use, add to this that there is still many modifications needed in catenary dept including finishing the catenary on some sidings.
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lordsigma12345
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by lordsigma12345 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:50 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Well, there is a plan for CDOT to order new equipment for Ctrail service. As for the Amfleets, in Amtrak's five year plan, the Amfleets are going to be retired.
The question is will CTDOT and MassDOT have to purchase new rolling stock for the Amtrak operation since it is PRIAA section 209 state-supported service or will Amtrak take care of it? For the state-supported trains where Amtrak owns the equipment are they on the hook to upgrade in when it reaches end of useful life or are the states?

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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by lordsigma12345 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:07 pm

asull85 wrote:Cars won't be added to the shuttles until the platform work in Springfield is complete.
That would make sense, if they add cars overnight storage at Springfield becomes an issue until that's complete. Track 8 is taken up every night by the daily full regional consist and track 6 has the second one on Friday and Saturday nights which leaves track 2a and 4 for Shuttle equipment. Once you start adding cars you'll need both those tracks for overnight train parking and track 4 is out of commission until the platform is done.

On that note the one thing I've been really wondering - does anyone know if Lake Shore is going to stop at the new platform? Would require a backup move, but curious as the ticket office/baggage is supposed to be slated to move into the new ground level intermodal center once that platform opens which means they'd need more time to get any baggage up to the low level platform on the B&A tracks and local media has reported that "all trains will use the new accessible platform." (Of course you can't always believe media.)

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:10 pm

I doubt that Ct and MA will have their own rolling stock for Amtrak. I don't see anything about that. I think Amtrak will own the equipment.

benboston
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by benboston » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:14 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Well, there is a plan for CDOT to order new equipment for Ctrail service. As for the Amfleets, in Amtrak's five year plan, the Amfleets are going to be retired.

Yes, on the first day of Ctrail Hartford Line operations, a four car Mafersa set was used to protect an Amtrak Shuttle set. Don't be surprised if that happens here and there, especially around Thanksgiving. The Springfield Line seems to be doing very well with Amtrak ridership and Ctrail, not too badly.

As for return of Inland Route service, what was the reason for the trains being discontinued? Was it that not enough people were going from Boston to NYP by way of the Inland Route which takes longer than the Shoreline. Remember, it's not just about going from Boston to NYP. There are probably people who live in and around Framingham who want to go to NYP as well as other cities like New Haven and Stamford who don't want to either backtrack to Boston or drive to Rt. 128 University Park Station. Worcester has a lot of potential to generate very healthy ridership along the Inland Route because there are many universities there and its a city that probably has a lot of tourism and corporations. Worcester is basically in no mans land when you want to take an Amtrak to New York. If you want to take the train to NYP, you are probably better off driving to Providence or even Springfield. Having Inland Service restored would also enable connections to Vermont as well.
Inland Route Service would definitely tap into Worcester's market. It currently is undergoing a major renaissance throughout the downtown, and the transit oriented development (previously lots of parking lots) around Worcester Union Station is taking off. Furthermore, Worcester airport just started having direct Worcester to NYC flights on JetBlue. This is tapping into the market that Amtrak would easily win over. Say MassDOT was able to strike a deal with CSX to make a double or triple track main line paralleling their ROW to Springfield. We would most likely be in business for an inland route alternative, and electrification would definitely be possible.

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shadyjay
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by shadyjay » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:11 pm

lordsigma12345 wrote:On that note the one thing I've been really wondering - does anyone know if Lake Shore is going to stop at the new platform? Would require a backup move, but curious as the ticket office/baggage is supposed to be slated to move into the new ground level intermodal center once that platform opens which means they'd need more time to get any baggage up to the low level platform on the B&A tracks and local media has reported that "all trains will use the new accessible platform." (Of course you can't always believe media.)
That's a good question. I just don't see how this one high level platform serving 2 tracks is going to do the work of what was before a 4-platform/6-track station, not to mention there is no access to the B&A from the west via the new Track 4/6 platform, as its on the Amtrak side. Now perhaps you could still get to all the other tracks by crossing from the west end of the high level platform, if they allow that. They could keep access to Track 8's low level platform via the present stairs/elevators and keep it "low" for now until they decide what to do with the former station and misc. trailers. Personally, I'd tear it down and put Track 10 back in. Is there any access via stairs or elevators to present Track 1 or 2/2A, or were those items removed when the tunnel was "water-proofed"? Doubt CSX would let you put in highs on Tracks 2/2A and 1 without a gauntlet or something.

If Track 4/6 platform is the only one to get an upgrade, I hope there's a future plan for growth. Add in any inland route, plus shuttle expansion up the ConnRiver, plus any CTRail expansion, and you're gonna need more platform space. You could do what New Haven did and upgrade platforms as time/finances permit, while keeping full access. But if those platform<->tunnel connections have been abolished, better keep in the boardwalk and allow extra dwell time.

east point
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by east point » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:59 pm

Could someone post a track layout diagram and can additional switches be installed to enable for these problems to be resolved ?

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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by BandA » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:10 pm

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Last edited by BandA on Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by Backshophoss » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:51 am

MBTA has a project to put in an Island platform at Worcester,was announced in the MBTA forum.
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lordsigma12345
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line: Greenfield/Boston B&A Shuttle S

Post by lordsigma12345 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:06 pm

shadyjay wrote:They could keep access to Track 8's low level platform via the present stairs/elevators and keep it "low" for now until they decide what to do with the former station and misc. trailers. Personally, I'd tear it down and put Track 10 back in. Is there any access via stairs or elevators to present Track 1 or 2/2A, or were those items removed when the tunnel was "water-proofed"? Doubt CSX would let you put in highs on Tracks 2/2A and 1 without a gauntlet or something.

If Track 4/6 platform is the only one to get an upgrade, I hope there's a future plan for growth. Add in any inland route, plus shuttle expansion up the ConnRiver, plus any CTRail expansion, and you're gonna need more platform space. You could do what New Haven did and upgrade platforms as time/finances permit, while keeping full access. But if those platform<->tunnel connections have been abolished, better keep in the boardwalk and allow extra dwell time.
Platform C (track 4/6) is the only one getting the upgrade. Platform D (track 8) will also be available for boardings via the current stairs/elevator if necessery but it sounded like the hope is to use the new one whenever possible and track 8 will be available if they need it for whatever reason. They are not slated to tear down the current station as the crew base is staying where it is and they are supposedly going to use the present waiting/ticket area as a break room for the CTrail crews.

I would imagine at the least all the Springfield line trains are going to use the new platform. For trains stored overnight on tracks 2a and 8 they'll probably just pull out west and then back into track 4 or 6 for boarding (or pull out east for track 2a). For the regionals on Saturday/Sunday mornings you'd have the one parked on track 6 overnight leave first as 143, and then the one parked on track 8 could pull forward and back into track 6 as 147/157. The question mark is the LSL. The stairway headhouses to track 2 platform were taken out with the water proofing so if they continue to have LSL stopping on track 2, passengers will have to enter thru the current stairwell/elevator to track 8 and then cross over to the track 2 platform as they do now. LSL could stop at the new platform but without adding new switches west of the platforms they'd have to back in when heading east and back out when heading west which would add time to the stop.

They have said the one high level platform is enough to meet all currently planned service. They'd upgrade an additional platform if further service increases down the road require it - it would probably be east-west inland route service that would trigger that.

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