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  • AMTRAK NEC: Springfield Shuttle/Regional/Valley Flyer/Inland Routing

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1517720  by bostontrainguy
 
Triaxle wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:28 pm Idiots removed that 50+ years ago.
Make a surface connection now, running at grade level, promise a tunnel in another 100 years. 35 mph between N and S stations and if you play chicken with the train it doesn't stop until the station. Don't punish the passengers for someone's need to show off.
I actually remember seeing that line in operation. God I'm getting old.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Freight_Railroad

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... t_Railroad
 #1517723  by TomNelligan
 
Another old guy here who remembers watching and photographing the Union Freight Railroad, but it was hardly suitable as a busy north/south passenger link. The UFRR never had passenger service of any kind... it was basically a low speed, street-running access to the Boston waterfront back when marine freight was unloaded onto rail cars there, and it also carried some NH/B&M interchange freight. Additionally, the track layout offered no access to the platforms at either North or South Station. At the north end it tied into the B&M just short of the Charles River drawbridge, beyond the platforms. At the south end it connected with the NH freight terminal off Northern Avenue and with the South Station trackage beyond the Atlantic Avenue mail and express facilities, again beyond the end of the passenger platforms.

http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=23701
http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=2381251
 #1517743  by BandA
 
TomNelligan wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:59 pm...the Union Freight Railroad...

http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=23701
http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=2381251
Those are coming up photo not found. Search shows eight pics, three of which are yours http://photos.nerail.org/show/?order=by ... =847&key2= Drifting off-topic though
 #1517766  by Ridgefielder
 
Triaxle wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:28 pm
charlesriverbranch wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:43 pm
BandA wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:28 pm What train length limits at BOS? Couple of the high tracks are short, but they are generally not used by Amtrak. There is a capacity problem until they buy out the USPS "General Mail Facility"
...or build the North South Rail Link, which would reduce the demand on South Station by allowing trains to run through to destinations on the north side.
Idiots removed that 50+ years ago.
Make a surface connection now, running at grade level, promise a tunnel in another 100 years. 35 mph between N and S stations and if you play chicken with the train it doesn't stop until the station. Don't punish the passengers for someone's need to show off.
The Boston waterfront along Atlantic Avenue has been completely transformed in the last 50 years. It's gone from being a neighborhood of scruffy old warehouses in the shadow of a highway viaduct to a district of high-end hotels, restaurants and shops linked by a quite nice linear park. There is *zero* chance that anybody in Boston would want to relay the old Union Freight trackage for a N-S link. It would be the equivalent of adding a fifth track to the Grand Central approach by laying it down the median of Park Avenue.
 #1517883  by lordsigma12345
 
Valley Flyer schedule attached. Notice the schedule does not allow for a day trip down to NYC and back on weekends for stations north of Springfield.

It appears on weekends they are selling the two “dead head” trains which bring the equipment to and from Springfield, but not on weekdays. This could allow someone to go up to NHT/GFD from SPG or HFD on the Vermonter for dinner/drinks and then head back south on the dead head (which allows a connection to the late CTrail for those heading south of SPG.)
Attachments:
8B80AEFE-5CB3-4259-8883-C1F43BCDAE3E.jpeg
8B80AEFE-5CB3-4259-8883-C1F43BCDAE3E.jpeg (179.65 KiB) Viewed 1246 times
 #1517897  by daybeers
 
lordsigma12345 wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:37 pm Valley Flyer schedule attached. Notice the schedule does not allow for a day trip down to NYC and back on weekends for stations north of Springfield.
What's the point of this new service then, Amtrak? Why is there a 20 minute layover in SPG and how does 499 not have a connecting Amtrak train? Amtrak doesn't provide ticketing for the CTrail trains so how are passengers expected to know that's an option, after a 27 minute layover, that is.

This late announcement of an incomplete schedule makes me think Amtrak doesn't care very much about this new service. If I were one of the Senators behind the project I'd be fuming. How are they supposed to use the marketing grant money if they can't brag about day trips to NYC and the improvements in travel times?
 #1517904  by gregorygrice
 
daybeers wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:37 am
lordsigma12345 wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:37 pm Valley Flyer schedule attached. Notice the schedule does not allow for a day trip down to NYC and back on weekends for stations north of Springfield.
What's the point of this new service then, Amtrak? Why is there a 20 minute layover in SPG and how does 499 not have a connecting Amtrak train? Amtrak doesn't provide ticketing for the CTrail trains so how are passengers expected to know that's an option, after a 27 minute layover, that is.

This late announcement of an incomplete schedule makes me think Amtrak doesn't care very much about this new service. If I were one of the Senators behind the project I'd be fuming. How are they supposed to use the marketing grant money if they can't brag about day trips to NYC and the improvements in travel times?

The 20 min layover is padding just in case the train is already late. 499 has no connecting Amtrak train 1, because its a deadhead back to Springfield and 2, CTrail 6411 leaves shortly after it arrives at Springfield. You are allowed to use any Amtrak ticket dated for that day or the next day on any CTrail train AND have the option of purchasing a ticket onboard, so making the connection with CTrail 6411 is not an issue. 6411 also connects with the last westbound Metro North train to GCT.
 #1517913  by Allouette
 
Backshophoss wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:32 am PAR dispatches this route N of Springfield,figure on freight interference as well :( :(
Not much of a problem. PAR runs a daily north of Greenfield and has some local work south to Springfield. The days of meets with 100+ car CPSP/SPCP and CVSP/SPCV pool trains are long gone.
 #1517944  by njtmnrrbuff
 
Weekend daytrips from any station north of Springfield heading to NYC will be very tough. I don’t think many people who live in Greenfield or Northampton would want to head to Manhattan for the day since there are so many attractions there and it would be worth it to spend a week there. Plus even during the week, you have to get up very early to head south. There will probably be many business travelers using the train to attend weekday meetings in NYC or even the cities in Fairfield County in Connecticut.
 #1517952  by Arlington
 
That looks like a great schedule, particularly if you note that Mass is paying for it.

In general the job of this train is to "beat the bus" by piercing I-95/I-91 rush hours directly (in the morning) and connecting with after-work NEC trains that beat NYC traffic. The Weekday schedule does this masterfully.

1) They totally nail the "supercommuter" market on weekdays--the same thing that powers so much of recent NEC successes (and is how the Downeaster works). It delivers a workable solution for living in sponsor state (MA, in this case) and working/consulting in "The Big City" (New Haven, Stamford, or NYC).

2) "Weekend Getaway" from NYC to the countryside works too, provided you leave after work on Friday and return either Sunday afternoon or first thing Monday morning.

3) "Weekend Getaway" to NYC works for students, taking a Friday train or an 9:15 Saturday, and staying at least one night visiting friends and relatives in NYC. Train market + Student/Rural == couch-surfing market, not "day of sightseeing"

I can't see any public policy reason why MA would or should want to encourage weekend daytrips to NYC. None. MA wants you to do your weekend day trips in-state, thank you very much. If New York would like to MA people to day visit, let them sponsor their own train.

Neither would it be worth chasing a weekend day trip *to* MA. We want you to stay overnight (it also is not clear what a day trip to Greenfield would look like frankly. Sure, Railfans would love to shout an echo into the Hoosac Tunnel--a big market on RR.net, a small market in Real Life). :-D

Meanwhile, recall that SPG is also a bus hub, and mostly this train needs to worth with the trips the bus is already doing, and by being/connecting trains that beat rush hour.
 #1518000  by Traingeek3629
 
Another analysis:

My main problem with the weekday schedule is that there isn't a good option for people coming back from NH/HFD/SPG in the evening on weekdays. The earliest option is 494, which doesn't even leave NH until 7:30 PM. This means that two potentially lucrative commuter markets (people probably won't commute north of Springfield to New Haven) are nixed until an earlier return trip is added. People working until 5-6 PM in Hartford aren't going to wait for an 8:20 PM train home. 476 should be added in place of 494 or 478.

Other than that it looks great! The only other issue is that the AM train on weekends has no connection from points south of SPG, but most people would probably go up on a Friday afternoon anyways.

Is everything still on track for the 30th? I haven't seen much press coverage.
 #1518020  by Stp243
 
Heres the most recent article from Masslive.com regarding the Valley Flier: https://www.masslive.com/business/2019/ ... field.html

It was posted this morning and shows an incorrect arrival time for the weekday southbound trains coming into Springfield, must be a typo.

Ill most likely never use this service on the weekdays given the type of work I do but the wife and I already have plans to use it on the weekends to visit Noho without having to squeeze my truck into one of those impossibly tight downtown parking spaces.
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