Michigan Central Station

[Tadman]

Makes sense to protect the passenger capability, since that means another renter - either Amtrak or whatever passes for SEMTA these days. Now if FoMoCo has some sense, they’ll purchase a share of the Detroit River Tunnel at whatever price it bottoms out at, and prepare for the end of the trade wars.

I don't foresee the tunnel (a) being for sale; (b) bottoming out in price if it is. That is a crazy critical piece of infrastructure and CP would be crazy to let it go. It's full of trains every day. Even if a trade war starts and burns hot, CP sends half their Vancouver-Toronto trains through the US just to save time versus the northerly route.

[Ridgefielder]

Makes sense to protect the passenger capability, since that means another renter - either Amtrak or whatever passes for SEMTA these days. Now if FoMoCo has some sense, they’ll purchase a share of the Detroit River Tunnel at whatever price it bottoms out at, and prepare for the end of the trade wars.

I don't foresee the tunnel (a) being for sale; (b) bottoming out in price if it is. That is a crazy critical piece of infrastructure and CP would be crazy to let it go. It's full of trains every day. Even if a trade war starts and burns hot, CP sends half their Vancouver-Toronto trains through the US just to save time versus the northerly route.

CP doesn't own it. The controlling interest in the Detroit River Tunnel- 83.5%- is held by the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System, or OMERS. OMERS bought CN's 50% stake in the tunnel in 2000, and then picked up a further 33% from CP in 2009.

Now, it is a critical piece of infrastructure for the Province considering the way Windsor and Detroit are economically integrated. But that's not to say the pension fund doesn't have a price at which they'd consider selling. Given that they picked up CP's stake at the bottom of the 2009 recession I'm guessing they'd make money on any sale close to current market prices.

[east point]

x

[east point]

What are the clearances in the Tunnel ? Is it correct that plate "H" cars do not clear ?

[gokeefe]

From Jalopnik:

It all started with someone who had a stolen clock from the station, which has been closed and falling into disrepair for three decades. The person reached out to Ford anonymously and said the clock had been missing for 20 years and was “ready to go home.” The exchange and subsequent scavenger hunt for the clock was fascinating.

That was just the beginning. The Detroit Free Press now reports that Ford has gotten about two dozen calls in regards to recovery and refurbishment, and that the company is making a list of things it’s been offered to check authenticity.

Here’s some of the stuff Ford has heard about, from the Freep:

“This is like no other process I’ve ever seen,” said Dave Dubensky, chairman and CEO of Ford Land. “We’ve touched the community in such a way that it compels them to call us and offer things back and even offer money.”

He continued, “One individual offered a plaster medallion of flowers original to the train depot. We’ve had multiple calls about lights, and another individual that has an original fountain from the depot.”

I have a feeling this is going to go on for quite some time ...

[Tadman]

It's been very cool to watch and restores my faith in people a bit. Here's to hoping the community keeps behind this effort as a whole. If it's not been amply clear around here, I absolutely love visiting Detroit in the last few years. There is a lot of good food and everybody downtown really wants to be there.

Just keep it in mind: Lafayette is the coney spot of choice. Don't even start to tell me about American Coney...

Yall have a nice afternoon.

[adamj023]

Ford is a car company which even has investments in an Uber competitor called Chariot. Ford Model T actually helped kill off America’s railroads and made cars more popular. Few people had cars and most people traveled by rail in the USA. They are not interested in coming back to rail, in fact the usage is for autonomous vehicles, The decline of Michigan Central was actually caused by Ford in part.

It does preserve a very nice building but it does not nor will not restore rail and true rail enthusiasts would not be so favorable to Ford for acquiring this station.

[gokeefe]

An appeal to purity is almost by definition a sign of extremism which in this case appears to be without basis in a reasonable analysis of the facts at hand.

There are two which strike me. First is the one I previously posted about that four "passenger" tracks would feed kept at the station. The second is the clear and repeated message that the major ground floor public spaces will be open to the public.

I am ignoring the more speculative reporting I've read in some articles regarding possible transit service to Dearborn. It's interesting but appears to have no place in the current plan which focuses solely on the facility and it's neighborhood.

Given the two key facts as described I think there is a very reasonable basis for discussion of passenger rail service of some kind. Given that we are talking about Michigan I also think it's reasonable to assume for the sake of discussion that Amtrak would be the operator.

It could all change, maybe Ford is bought by John Deere and suddenly a whole bunch of people will catch Uber rides on the back of lawn mowers. Won't rule it out ...

However, in the absence of the leaping stag taking over one of the Big Three I think it's reasonable to discuss and consider the likely beneficial outcomes for passenger rail.

I emphasize one last time ... When I saw a Ford affiliated executive say they were going to save four "passenger" tracks it really caught my attention.

"My my how things have changed" ...

[adamj023]

I agree that Ford did agree to keeping the tracks but I don’t expect the tracks to be important to the firm unless of course Ford decides to get into the railroad business. Ford will be able to restore the complex as it will be actively used, but as to what usage the rail tracks will have is anyones guess. Rail is not compatible with the autonomous vehicle which takes away from rail usage.

[gokeefe]

Rail is not compatible with the autonomous vehicle which takes away from rail usage.

I do not agree with that point of view at all.

Take Maine for example. Tens of thousands of people who can't currently drive either due to age, disability or license revocation. These individuals currently make a limited contribution to congestion. Imagine all of the thousands of additional daily trips these people would contribute with personally owned autonomous vehicles.

Parking gets more expensive due to higher demand, traffic congestion gets worse and you still don't have a handicapped accessible bathroom aboard.

That to me sounds like a scenario that merely enables more travel of all kinds, not less of anything.

[andegold]

Autonomous vehicles are a last mile solution not a point to point solution. Autonomous vehicles and rail should go together very well.

[WesternNation]

An appeal to purity is almost by definition a sign of extremism which in this case appears to be without basis in a reasonable analysis of the facts at hand.

There are two which strike me. First is the one I previously posted about that four "passenger" tracks would feed kept at the station. The second is the clear and repeated message that the major ground floor public spaces will be open to the public.

I am ignoring the more speculative reporting I've read in some articles regarding possible transit service to Dearborn. It's interesting but appears to have no place in the current plan which focuses solely on the facility and it's neighborhood.

Given the two key facts as described I think there is a very reasonable basis for discussion of passenger rail service of some kind. Given that we are talking about Michigan I also think it's reasonable to assume for the sake of discussion that Amtrak would be the operator.

It could all change, maybe Ford is bought by John Deere and suddenly a whole bunch of people will catch Uber rides on the back of lawn mowers. Won't rule it out ...

However, in the absence of the leaping stag taking over one of the Big Three I think it's reasonable to discuss and consider the likely beneficial outcomes for passenger rail.

I emphasize one last time ... When I saw a Ford affiliated executive say they were going to save four "passenger" tracks it really caught my attention.

"My my how things have changed" ...

I remember reading somewhere that Detroit New Center was only supposed to be a temporary station. Now, with MCS coming back, I wouldn’t be surprised if it moved from New Center to MCS, or maybe have them both, if there’s sufficient demand.

Lots to consider..

[David Benton]

Rail is not compatible with the autonomous vehicle which takes away from rail usage.

I do not agree with that point of view at all.

Take Maine for example. Tens of thousands of people who can't currently drive either due to age, disability or license revocation. These individuals currently make a limited contribution to congestion. Imagine all of the thousands of additional daily trips these people would contribute with personally owned autonomous vehicles.

Parking gets more expensive due to higher demand, traffic congestion gets worse and you still don't have a handicapped accessible bathroom aboard.

That to me sounds like a scenario that merely enables more travel of all kinds, not less of anything.

Welcome back.
The autonomous vehicle is a game changer for the groups you mention. (especially the rapidly growing older age group). No longer been able to drive is a huge loss of freedom, for a generation that has driven all their life. But they are still likely to take a train , providing they can get to and from it. Noone has been able to explain to me how autonomous vehicles will reduce traffic congestion , rather than add to it, despite it been one of the main benefits touted. They are 5 to 10 years away from reality anyway. Autonomous trains are here already.
I think they made the right decision to leave /enable rail capability.

[gokeefe]

Welcome back.

Thank you very much David. Nice to be missed.

The autonomous vehicle is a game changer for the groups you mention. (especially the rapidly growing older age group). No longer been able to drive is a huge loss of freedom, for a generation that has driven all their life. But they are still likely to take a train , providing they can get to and from it. Noone has been able to explain to me how autonomous vehicles will reduce traffic congestion , rather than add to it, despite it been one of the main benefits touted. They are 5 to 10 years away from reality anyway. Autonomous trains are here already.
I think they made the right decision to leave /enable rail capability.

You actually make another good point by implication ... Ford very easily could have said, "we are tearing out the passenger concourse and tracks in order to add additional square footage to help support our return on investment." I can assure you this is something their property managers would have considered.

No one would have batted an eye and the whole situation would have been explained away with statements like, "The site is not expected to see a return of passenger rail service given the investment required. We are thankful for Ford's generous contribution to the rebuilding of Detroit and look forward to joining them at the Grand Opening."

Done. Finished. No further statement necessary.

Instead we have a near polar opposite of four "passenger" tracks being preserved. I emphasize the use of the word "passenger". They could have said "infrastructure", or "rails" or "track space" or some other generic smoke term but they didn't. Those tracks are staying because the plan is keeping the option open for Michigan Central Station to serve as a rail passenger station once again.

It just doesn't get any better than this ... Nothing else would even come close.

[east point]

Once the plans are finalized enough and work can begin the question will be how soon could passenger service return to the station ? Then of course getting Amtrak to move would take more time ? Thinking of Niagara Falls mess .