Amtrak ACS-64 Sprinter Discussion

[Tadman]

We're again getting to the point where it's worth asking - what kind of cold temps were these designed for? Obviously they're designed to run in sub-zero temps, but the magnitude of the sub zero temps and the duty cycle required during those temps would have a big effect on design, build, and cost. Running flawlessly all day at 125mph on a 12-car train for 45 days of constant sub zero requires much heavier engineering than 2 trips/day with four cars with only one sub-zero day in a row.

[David Benton]

Pretty sure they have winters in Northern Europe.I think someone mentioned winter testing in the Alps.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Cold enough to test 'em out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zem-s3oj8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DutchRailnut]

snow in Europe does not always mean cold, with Europe having weather determined by humidity from Gulf stream its very wet all time.
and snow seems to do best when close to freezing.

[David Benton]

snow in Europe does not always mean cold, with Europe having weather determined by humidity from Gulf stream its very wet all time.
and snow seems to do best when close to freezing.

Even so, I can't imagine a company like Siemens not taking the likely climatic conditions into consideration when designing a locomotive.

[BuddSilverliner269]

Can we cut these engines some slack? This really is the first winter they are in servic. THe first few sat around most of last winter and that would've been the real test. The ALP46 which arguably is one of the best locomotives in service had problems the first winter or so and the first real hit summer played havoc on them and they had to be retrofitted. Doesn't mean what's good for Europe will work well in America. Let the mods take place and than make your decisions huh?

[Gilbert B Norman]

St. Anton am Arlberg, Austria, where the video I immediately linked was shot, is in the Alps.

[BuddSilverliner269]

Doesn't matter GBN because the locomotives that we are running is not the same. What we have is a combo of the vectron and sprinter platforms and whose to say that what is is this locomotive that is in your YouTube video has exactly the same thing as what amtrak ordered. I'd be willing to bet that it's not.

[gokeefe]

Doesn't matter GBN because the locomotives that we are running is not the same. What we have is a combo of the vectron and sprinter platforms and whose to say that what is is this locomotive that is in your YouTube video has exactly the same thing as what amtrak ordered. I'd be willing to bet that it's not.

Of course it isn't. But point being, nothing designed for service in Europe is going to be built as if it were running on Egyptian National Railways for example.

So far with the exception of some really weird issues with the very first units (rapidly corrected) it all seems like fairly routine break in issues to me.

[David Benton]

You'll probably find similar issues occurred with the introduction of the AEM7's, and all other locomotives. Anything new needs the bugs tweaked out.
Here, everyone was giving the new Chinese locomotives a lot of stick, till someone pointed out the American diesels had more downtime when they were first introduced.( probably not a fair comparison, because diesels were a relatively new concept back then anyway.

Could sure do with some cold wet snow here. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... to_comment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

[Backshophoss]

The first GG-1's had problems with fine powder snow,and where the orignal air intakes were located,
at carbody floor level,the quick fix was linen cloth filters,after that winter,the final fix was that the air intakes
were moved to just below roof level near the pan mounts.
That fine powder snow finds it's way into everything,and can plug up filters real quick!

[NH2060]

Bear in mind these are new locos so perhaps they need to become conditioned to running in such cold and potentially difficult weather? And don't forget we have been/are in the middle of a "cold snap".

The fact that the AEM-7s are still out and about after around 35 years whereas the last of the HHP-8s were taken out of regular service about a couple of months ago should say something.

[ApproachMedium]

the 625 apparently had some issues wjth the cold in Boston this morning

…and I believe several had cold weather issues in SSYD this morning!

There wasnt a motor issue, it was a wire issue.

The AEM-7s almost always do good in cold weather. But a failed heating element in the filter dryer will take out any locomotives air system very quickly in this cold weather no matter how good its been "conditioned" to run in cold weather. AEM-7s hate heat, but love cold weather. With their sweedish backround the air intake system was designed to defeat snow in the machine room at all costs, keep stuff warm in the winter and cool on the warmer days. They were never designed for running in our august weather. The HHPs were fair weather engines. 40-70 degrees and sunny they ran fine. Rain? Wheelslip. Snow? Sucked in and shorting out stuff. Hot? Everything overheats. The sprinters are doing lightyears better than some of the previous stuff for handling weather conditions on top of that the HVAC system as wonky as it can be is doing a good job at keeping the cabs comfy for the engineers and maintenance people working on the stuff.

[ThirdRail7]

Budd, its also not like every single Sprinter had problems these last couple of days anyway, so I dont see why we even need to waste our time defending them because 625 tripped on a test run.

Ill reiterate for the rest of you, 625 had the shortest end of the stick thus far temperaturewise, it didnt have the luxury of the ginger Spring/Summer/Fall temperatures that 603-624 had. Also, to back up Budds ALP46 statement, even the mighty GG1 had issues one winter with fine snow getting into certain systems and shorting them out, I dont remember the exact details, but bottom line every single Amtrak locomotive from the GG1 down has had problems at one point. 612 has been the only perennial head case thus far with Sprinters, out of 25 in service, and even its most recent issues i will give it credit have only required recycles to fix.

The fact that you would make this ludicrous comment shows that you are ill informed, although it isn't necessarily your fault.

Allow me to reiterate something to you, Aceinthehole.

You basically know what trickles to you through alternate means. In other words, if no one mentions it to you, you're probably not going to know. People that are dealing with these engines on a daily basis are not particularly pleased. Unfortunately, most have grown silent (and you remember why and is the reason I haven't posted in months.) If it was just a matter of the 625 (which didn't actually have an engine issue) or the 612 (which shows how out of it you really are because that is one of the LEAST of the worries when you compare it to a few otheres..have your people take a look), we could cut some slack. While I'm still reluctant to call them "junk," I have GRAVE concerns just as I did with the HHP-8s. I stated they would NEVER go the distance or last as long as the meatballs. I'm really beginning to think the same things about these new units...and we didn't even really have a hot summer last year.

I'm not talking from a strictly propulsion standpoint. There are MANY more things that go along with an engine and as I previously indicated, it's nice to have a spanking new unit. If we had a spanking new infrastructure to go along with it, I'm sure they'd fit in fine. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The HHP-8s had their flaws but among the biggest was the fact the HHp-8s were smart. In fact, they were too smart for the pounding that the NEC gave them. The same will apply to these units.

The AEM-7s performed because they are dumb. They basically run because they don't know any better. They literally run until they die, catch on fire or someone bothers to turn them off. They are perfect for Amtrak's old NEC infrastructure. Even with yet another round of mods, these smarter units are not taking the pounding well and as AM previously stated, certain things that shouldn't be an issue at this stage in the game already are. If toaster wants to blame the personnel, I wouldn't argue the point. I would only say that they shouldn't have been able to cause some of the issues...if things were "up to snuff and built to last."

Again, I'm not throwing in the towel. There are many mods coming, particularly on the lower units. I still want to see how these things handle extreme heat, because last summer the few days that were extreme wrecked havoc. However, to say it's just "teething" issues and one or two units is highly inaccurate.

I was speaking to someone who wondered aloud: If this is how they are (mis)behaving now, what will happen when Amtrak starts REALLY running them into the ground? What will happen when they are routinely short turned? The AEM-7DCs weren't junk. They were abused and ill maintained and now the price is being paid. If Amtrak starts treated these units like the AEM-7s, the person I was speaking to summed it up nicely:

These units are doomed.

[ACeInTheHole]

Noted ThirdRail. yes Approach already clarified. that other individual, not a poster here, seemed reliable, but Isnt. Noted not to trust word from that source in future. Lets clear that post out as a bunch of misinformed hogwash and move on. How are the newer Sprinters behaving vs. the old ones? Are the newer ones showing any sign of durability improvements?