Viewliner II Delivery/Production

[gokeefe]

Everything that Amtrak does with allocations or not is dealt with in their annual audit ("read the notes" - GBN) and their annual appropriation.

If you really want to go digging in the government for a mess try and produce an audited financial statement at DoD ... Good luck with that ... (it's never happened and it's considered a major deficiency).

[BandA]

It's interesting that they are still getting deliveries from CAF vs. the bilevel order that was spiked by NS.

[mtuandrew]

It's interesting that they are still getting deliveries from CAF vs. the bilevel order that was spiked by NS.

Why’s that? The V-II passed the collision tests and the N-S bilevel didn’t; also, Amtrak’s check must have cleared for CAF, and maybe Sumitomo’s check for Nippon Sharyo didn’t?

[D.Carleton]

It's interesting that they are still getting deliveries from CAF vs. the bilevel order that was spiked by NS.

I find it more interesting that in the eight years of this debacle Siemens built and delivered 20 coaches to Florida and booked an order for over 130 more.

[ApproachMedium]

It's interesting that they are still getting deliveries from CAF vs. the bilevel order that was spiked by NS.

Why’s that? The V-II passed the collision tests and the N-S bilevel didn’t; also, Amtrak’s check must have cleared for CAF, and maybe Sumitomo’s check for Nippon Sharyo didn’t?

Big difference here, the CAF order was all directly from amtrak budget. The Midwest bilevel order was from govt high speed grants and has time limits/terms before the money goes *poof*. So thats why they switched to siemens. I guess because the siemens product is already to market, tested and OK they were able to negate all of the testing process and move right on to production.

[mtuandrew]

I also keep forgetting, most of this process was CAF learning how to build a 1983 Ford Crown Victoria when they usually build 2018 Fiestas.

[gokeefe]

I guess because the siemens product is already to market, tested and OK they were able to negate all of the testing process and move right on to production.

From what I've seen and heard that is absolutely correct.

[Arlington]

So is the bottom line for the V-II sleepers and dorms:

1) Each delivery is paid from "current cash" accounts at Amtrak--money that might be spent more urgently on other capital budget items, whether track or rolling stock. If so, this would be a good reason why Amtrak might want deliveries to come as slow as possible: they burn cash that is more urgently needed for other things.

2) Each car is hard to profitably deploy. The bags and diners at least replaced exhausted cars, and made whole trains more reliable--but no harder to fill, since they did not force Amtrak to expand capacity. Actual additional sleeper capacity would be deadly if all it did was produce larger losses. The assumption here is that current trains are optimally-sized. Until Amtrak finds a way to deploy sleepers so that they win fare $ faster than they burn diner dollars, it doen't need any new sleepers.

Putting 1 and 2 together, the implication is that Amtrak would be insane to lay out cash for sleeper/dorms that would either sit in storage, or worse, if run, would compound a bad use of capital budget by blowing a hole in the train operating budgets.

[Bob Roberts]

So is the bottom line for the V-II sleepers and dorms:

1) Each delivery is paid from "current cash" accounts at Amtrak--money that might be spent more urgently on other capital budget items, whether track or rolling stock. If so, this would be a good reason why Amtrak might want deliveries to come as slow as possible: they burn cash that is more urgently needed for other things.

2) Each car is hard to profitably deploy. The bags and diners at least replaced exhausted cars, and made whole trains more reliable--but no harder to fill, since they did not force Amtrak to expand capacity. Actual additional sleeper capacity would be deadly if all it did was produce larger losses. The assumption here is that current trains are optimally-sized. Until Amtrak finds a way to deploy sleepers so that they win fare $ faster than they burn diner dollars, it doen't need any new sleepers.

Putting 1 and 2 together, the implication is that Amtrak would be insane to lay out cash for sleeper/dorms that would either sit in storage, or worse, if run, would compound a bad use of capital budget by blowing a hole in the train operating budgets.

I agree with your assessment but I'll offer a couple of contrary anecdotes. The Silver Starvation trains I have seen in Raleigh over the past few weeks have been chocka and I have been totally unable to book a reasonably priced roomette on the diner-light Cardinal or the Lake Shore in ages. Conversely I had no trouble getting cheap Crescent (full-chow) roomettes back in the Spring.

[bostontrainguy]

Putting 1 and 2 together, the implication is that Amtrak would be insane to lay out cash for sleeper/dorms that would either sit in storage, or worse, if run, would compound a bad use of capital budget by blowing a hole in the train operating budgets.

Well if the baggage/dorms are used as planned the sleeper attendants would be in them and that would open up one roomette per sleeper. Then of course when the newer configuration comes into play that roomette will be a double bathroom module so we are back to square one.

[Arlington]

agree with your assessment but I'll offer a couple of contrary anecdotes. The Silver Starvation trains I have seen in Raleigh over the past few weeks have been chocka and I have been totally unable to book a reasonably priced roomette on the diner-light Cardinal or the Lake Shore in ages. Conversely I had no trouble getting cheap Crescent (full-chow) roomettes back in the Spring.

So if Starvation or Diner Lites get worked out, would you say that they'd create a place that additional (V-II) sleepers could be deployed profitably? I think I would. Hence, my eagerness (in another thread) to see if the MPRs were available.

[BandA]

I assume sleepers are staffed based on capacity rather than actual bookings or average bookings? I assume Amtrak keeps a sharp eye on the thresholds where additional attendants or conductors are needed. Empty, closed off cars probably don't cost much to haul around.

[Bob Roberts]

So if Starvation or Diner Lites get worked out, would you say that they'd create a place that additional (V-II) sleepers could be deployed profitably? I think I would. Hence, my eagerness (in another thread) to see if the MPRs were available.

Yes, that is my take based on observations this summer. I think Amtrak is leaving money on the table with its constrained sleeper capacity.

[gokeefe]

The assumption here is that current trains are optimally-sized. Until Amtrak finds a way to deploy sleepers so that they win fare $ faster than they burn diner dollars, it doen't need any new sleepers.

I don't think it's a reasonable assumption at all given that fixed consists prevail regardless of seasonal swings in demand.

[Railjunkie]

. Extra train to Elmira this AM to pick up 3 diners and a bag dorm. Should be back in Albany by Tuesday afternoon