Pre-Amtrak boarding procedures: lines, ticket checks, etc.?

[SouthernRailway]

I see that Slate online has an article about Amtrak's boarding procedures at Penn Station in NY and at Washington Union Station, with complaints about the lines and ticket checks before boarding. (I've also seen those procedures in Seattle and Charlotte.)

Did railroads in pre-Amtrak days have similar boarding procedures?

I'd guess not, since it seems unlikely to me that the Penn Central in the Northeast would have varying boarding procedures, even at the same station, for commuter trains vs. intercity ones.

If not, when did Amtrak come up with them?

I would guess that pre-Amtrak railroads just let people board without ticket checks, waiting in line, etc., except maybe at Penn Station.

Thanks.

[Noel Weaver]

To the best of my knowledge and memory it was not done at Penn Station, NY or at Boston or Washington or anywhere else in between either. It was done at Montreal and Toronto in Canada and maybe some of the western railroads in the US did it too. I seem to think maybe Chicago Dearborn Station. Of course this is a horse of a different color but in the past and maybe today too some commuter trains were gate collected at various locations. The New York Central did that for a while at Grand Central Terminal, they erected sissor type gates between some of the lower level platforms and gate collected some of the locals especially in the rush hour and then they ran them with just an engineer and a conductor. I don't remember just how long this continued but it went for a spell then it was ended. I don't know of any other locations in the northeast where one had to show their ticket at the gate.
Noel Weaver

[Noel Weaver]

One exception to my last post came to me after I posted it, Penn Central required passengers for the Metroliners to show their tickets before passing through the gate to the track at New York and probably Washington and maybe Philadelphia too.
Noel Weaver

[JimBoylan]

I've seen photos showing that some railroads at Chicago Union Station and New York's Grand Central Terminal had booths near the platform gates for 1st Class, usually sleeping car passengers, to check in before boarding. The one signed for New Haven's "Owl" had both a railroad and a Pullman conductor attending, so I think that they collected tickets there.

[Noel Weaver]

I've seen photos showing that some railroads at Chicago Union Station and New York's Grand Central Terminal had booths near the platform gates for 1st Class, usually sleeping car passengers, to check in before boarding. The one signed for New Haven's "Owl" had both a railroad and a Pullman conductor attending, so I think that they collected tickets there.

This was standard proceedure at originating and very important intermediate stations for Pullman (sleeping car) passengers in the days of the Pullman Company. Both the train conductor and the Pullmn Conductor were at a desk at the gate or other location in the station and yes they collected the tickets and checked the passenger in at that time. It was not done at that location for coach passengers but only for sleeping car passengers. There were a number of reasons that this practice took place and they made much sense then and would today too.
Noel Weaver

[Gilbert B Norman]

To expand upon Mr. Weaver's immediate thought, I can well recall the desk set at Track 34 for The Century's departure from GCT. The signage read to the effect of 'Passenger will present Transportation and Sleeping Car tickets here'.

'Gee Mom, what's Transportation?'

Oh well, that signage has been relegated to the same archives as have other railroad signage such as 'Kindly flush....", and 'Quiet is requested....' as well as a station position on the PRR titled 'Usher'.

[SouthernRailway]

There were a number of reasons that this practice took place and they made much sense then and would today too.
Noel Weaver

Thanks. Out of curiosity, what were the reasons? To be able to quickly re-sell unsold valuable sleeping car space if needed, maybe?

[TomNelligan]

I would guess that pre-Amtrak railroads just let people board without ticket checks, waiting in line, etc., except maybe at Penn Station.

Generally true. While there were some exceptions as noted above, especially for Pullman passengers, pre-boarding ticket checks were not routine in the pre-Amtrak era or for that matter during Amtrak's first couple decades, especially for coach passengers and at stations other than a couple major terminals. It was assumed that passengers were sentient beings who could read departure boards and listen to PA announcements and get themselves onto the correct train (which is still the practice at most NEC stations).

[Noel Weaver]

There were a number of reasons that this practice took place and they made much sense then and would today too.
Noel Weaver

Thanks. Out of curiosity, what were the reasons? To be able to quickly re-sell unsold valuable sleeping car space if needed, maybe?

Even on lines and on trains that had only sleeping car in the days of Pullman Sleepers Pullman Passengers were very highly regarded and highly respected. No middle of the night ticket checks or anything else that would disturb the passenger. Your shoes were shined every trip before you put them back on too. This was before the reservation network was highly computerized like it is today, every station was assigned a certain amount of space for a particular car. For example train 125 on the New Haven which was the State of Maine from Portland, Maine to Grand Central Terminal, New York. It normally had three sleepers out of Portland one of which was a lounge car which also had 6 double bedrooms, one a 14 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Point Car and one was a Beach Car with Berths, Roomettes and Double Bedrooms. Portland was assigned the bulk of the sleeping car space and it would be sold through the Portland Ticket Office if it was open and the Boston Reservations office if Portland was not open. Some space would be assigned to stations enroute not very far out of Portland so that it could be sold by the agent at that location without calling Portland for the space. I suspect maybe Biddeford, Maine, Dover New Hampshire and maybe Lawrence, Mass would come under this category but this is just a guess and an example of how these things were handled. A Boston - New York sleeper on train 3 would have the space assigned to mostly Boston but probably also Providence and maybe New London as well. After the train left its originating station the space would be transferred down to Providence or in the case of Portland to the next station where space was assigned until it was sold. At the check in counter just before departure the conductor would call the ticket agent and advise of any no shows although in the case of Boston the passenger could get on at Back Bay or even Route 128 so I guess that was not an option.
The Pullman Company maintained a very high standard of service in their sleeping cars right up until they finally folded and turned the sleeping cars over to the railroad companies not too long before the start up of Amtak. A few railroads (New York Central was one of them) pulled out of Pullman before the end came and operated their own sleeping cars and I think Penn Central soon after the two railroads merged also took over all of their sleeping cars, don't remember whether it was day one after the merger or not. There were interline situations so nothing was 100 per cent even after the Central pulled out of Pullman as they interchanged sleeping car lines with the C. & O. which stayed with Pullman much longer. Ticketing was different in those days too, parlor cars and sleeping cars required a first class rail ticket and those fares were of course higher than coach fares plus a charge for accomodations which went directly to the Pullman Company on Pullman operated cars. The Pennsylvania and the New Haven operated their own parlor cars for some time before the sleeping car operations went to Pullman. It is a long story and I guess I could say more but this is enough for now. One more thing the Pullman Company Conductors and Porters were a really good buch of folks, very good to deal with and very competent and very, very professional, the customer came first always within the relhm of safety. The conductor was the boss of the train but in the sleeping cars the Pullman Conductor was the boss and they were good too.
Noel Weaver

[Ocala Mike]

Very nice write-up, as usual, Noel. Like Gil, I too remember the boarding ritual at GCT track 34 for the 6:00 departure of the Century, especially the red carpet that was rolled out. One thing also to note is that there was a proscription at GCT to the effect that only ticketed passengers were allowed out on the platforms. I can assure you that it was mostly honored in the breach rather than in the observance because I used to "get away with it" all the time (save one, but that's another story) as a youngster.

[Tadman]

Southern, can you provide a link to the Slate article? I'd like to read it. Amtrak boarding at Chicago Union Station is awful. It's so bad I've considered taking Metra to the first suburban Amtrak station and boarding there.

[ThirdRail7]

Southern, can you provide a link to the Slate article? I'd like to read it. Amtrak boarding at Chicago Union Station is awful. It's so bad I've considered taking Metra to the first suburban Amtrak station and boarding there.

It is right in the previous thread we discussed a few days ago. Perhaps a merge is in order.

[electricron]

Just wanted to add my own observations about Chicago's Union Station platforms' environments.
Diesel exhaust is heavy making it difficult to breathe for prolong periods of time. I'm not even sure there's mechanical ventilation for the platforms. I do not desire to wait on the station platforms to board a train when I am having difficulties breathing. I prefer waiting as long as possible in the fresh & clean air conditioned waiting area.

Yes, I realize long lines form whenever boarding of the next train is announced over the loudspeakers. It can be much longer than a typical 737 (~150 seats) jetliner, but then the LD trains carry two to three times more passengers more akin to a typical 747 (440 - 550 - 660 seats). I suggest waiting to board a 747 would arouse anger at longer waits as well. At least at airports, every gate has its own waiting area and seats. At train stations, there just one huge waiting area for most passengers, and a relatively small waiting area for first class (sleeper) passengers.

So it can get very confusing, I understand why many desire something better. But there isn't space at the train stations to have dedicated seating for every platform and every train. I don't think the idea of having passengers waiting on the train platforms is safe in a fully enclosed area with diesel exhausts polluting the air.

I believe Amtrak is doing as best it can considering the circumstances.

[Woodcrest295]

This is the reason i Like Newark Penn over NY Penn. Philadelphia checks tickets before boarding but the station is so stately and departing is so easy that i dont really mind at all.... except for the Keystones/Pennsylvanian you always wait for the train to come whether your first on line or last.

[SouthernRailway]

I believe Amtrak is doing as best it can considering the circumstances.

In Chicago or systemwide?

Making people in Charlotte wait in a line that stretches around the entire station before boarding a 3-5 car Piedmont (which runs every few hours) on the station's sole platform is simply an unnecessarily created frustration.