Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

[ThirdRail7]

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/transport ... ct-forward

More patronage?

More like improved coordination through the creation of an entity that makes the key parties joint stakeholders in success. Good sign.

I agree with Jeff Smith. It is more patronage. I say this based upon the fact you have the Port Authority of New York/New Jersey that typically fulfills this role...albeit poorly. The two states couldn't manage that agency, so they're going to start another one...and run that one poorly as well??

[Arlington]

I think it is just an admission that Amtrak owns the railroad, but NY & NJ are putting up the $.
PANYNJ, as a 50-50 can hide a lot of bad management by blaming stuff on "the other state"
With AMTK as tie-breaker, this could be a pretty good way of Amtrak siding with whomever is behaving "better"

[Jeff Smith]

Boondoggle?: NYDailyNews.com

Rack and roll: Ditch Gateway monstrosity for cheaper, faster upgrades
...
So why is Amtrak still scratching its chin-beard over using now-proven racking to repair its Hudson tunnel?

Instead of eagerly trying to fix the Hudson tubes with racking, the politicians and construction firms — the transportation-industrial complex — demand cash for their $30 billion Gateway boondoogle, an extravagant unneeded combination of new tubes, new bridges and new stations.

Since that money isn’t forthcoming, they complain that Donald Trump is a meanie. Nonsense. Racking is the fastest and most environmentally sound repair.

Another Gateway piece, the wasteful $1.8 billion ultra-high new two-track bridge over the Hackensack River, is likewise stalled. Good. The current two-track Portal Bridge once opened for boats often, stopping NJTransit and Amtrak trains. No more. First, because there are barely any vessels, about one every six weeks.

Second, because, on our urging, Amtrak got the Coast Guard to bar boats during rush hours. A four-month comment period on those rules just ended. No commuters commented. Nor did a single politician. Not one boat operator demonstrated that the new rules interfered with commence. Make the limited hours permanent.

As for a new bridge, it’s folly to replace two tracks with two tracks when four are needed. The plan also fails the capacity gain requirement for a federal grant. Four low tracks that open for a rare, off-hour vessel would cost far less.
...

[Jeff Smith]

The flip side: Bloomberg.com

Train Riders Lost 2,000 Hours in NYC Tunnel, Bridge Mishaps

Failures at the century-old Hudson River rail tunnel and its companion, a New Jersey swing bridge, chewed up almost 2,000 hours of travel time over five years, according to an analysis by replacement-project proponents.

The study, by the Gateway Program Development Corp., examined “major incident day” figures from New Jersey Transit and Amtrak, owner of the tunnel and Portal Bridge over the Hackensack River between Kearny and Secaucus, from 2014 through 2018. On 85 days, it found, glitches tied up rail travel for at least five hours.

The bridge and tunnel, both operating for 108 years, are major choke points on the Northeast Corridor, the busiest U.S. passenger-rail route and a key one for New Jersey commuters. Gateway, whose sponsors include Amtrak and NJ Transit, want to replace the tunnel and bridge and make other New York City-area rail improvements. But President Donald Trump has resisted committing billions of dollars in federal funding.
...

[mtuandrew]

I love that the NY Daily News claims that it’s a necessity to have a four-track Portal Bridge (which I agree with) but it’s perfectly fine to have a two-track set of North River Tunnels.

[Jeff Smith]

Yeah, I found that a contradiction, too.

[Ridgefielder]

I think it is just an admission that Amtrak owns the railroad, but NY & NJ are putting up the $.
PANYNJ, as a 50-50 can hide a lot of bad management by blaming stuff on "the other state"
With AMTK as tie-breaker, this could be a pretty good way of Amtrak siding with whomever is behaving "better"

It's also going to be more focused than the Port Authority.

The PA NY/NJ is nothing short of sprawling. It controls five airports (Newark, LaGuardia, JFK, Stewart and Teterboro), four marine terminals (including Port Newark), four toll bridges (including the GW), three bus terminals, the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, the World Trade Center, the carfloat operation formerly known as New York Cross Harbor, and a 14 mile rapid transit railroad (the PATH) that hauls more people each day than the MBTA Red Line.

Important as Gateway is, it's got a real chance of getting lost in the midst of all that. It certainly isn't going to be top priority for PA NYNJ management.

[gokeefe]

Imagine a bureaucracy large enough not to get swallowed alive by this project when it becomes challenging ... Based on the above description they're a perfect fit.

[Tadman]

PANYNJ is interesting because it has an annual revenue of $5.4b and is self sustaining, with little to no taxing or grants. For all the commentary about how inept they are, they manage to make money. Given that they manage not to lose money every year, I’m curious why the new Hudson tunnels are going to a new agency.

[Hawaiitiki]

The PA NY/NJ is nothing short of sprawling. It controls five airports (Newark, LaGuardia, JFK, Stewart and Teterboro),

To support your "overly spread-out and sprawling" arguement, they also run Atlantic City International Airport (which is 100 miles south of anything that should require NY/NJ billateral cooperation of management and would be considered by most to be far far more in the Philadelphia, PA sphere of influence rather than the NY Metro) ...smh

[Return to Reading Company Olney Sta]

Atlantic City International operated by the South Jersey Transportation Authority, not the same entity as the PANYNJ.

[R36 Combine Coach]

Atlantic City International operated by the South Jersey Transportation Authority, not the same entity as the PANYNJ.

SJTA's main business is the AC Expressway, though surprised PHL International isn't under DRPA.

PANYNJ also covers Stewart (SWF).

PANYNJ is interesting because it has an annual revenue of $5.4b and is self sustaining, with little to no taxing or grants.

PATH does receive FTA capital grants for various system improvements and capital programs.

[electricron]

PANYNJ is interesting because it has an annual revenue of $5.4b and is self sustaining, with little to no taxing or grants. For all the commentary about how inept they are, they manage to make money. Given that they manage not to lose money every year, I’m curious why the new Hudson tunnels are going to a new agency.

Everything the Port Authority runs is owned by it. The North and East River Tunnels approaching Manhattan are owned by Amtrak, not by them. A new agency is need to reflect that most important point giving Amtrak some, more likely full, say on how the new tunnels will be managed.

[R36 Combine Coach]

And PANYNJ also has owned many things they don't run: a large order of MCI MC-9s for NJT and private carriers in 1982-83, many NYCT RTSs in 1980s, NJT Multilevels, some LIRR/MNCR M-1s/M-3s and also the 1962 and 1965 NYC/MNCR ACMUs.

[Dcell]

The N.Y. Daily News is the liberal paper and the NY Post has the conservative viewpoint. So this is very big news that the NYDN has come out against the Amtrak Gateway Tunnels project. As more questions are raised about the cost and value of this project, I think you will hear more voices coming out in opposition.