Hoosier State Discussion (both Amtrak and Iowa Pacific)

[Gilbert B Norman]

I was thinking that when the Hoosier State is retired, maybe the State of Ct and MA could let Amtrak bring any Amfleets that were used and add capacity to the Springfield Line shuttles

But, if Amtrak is to remain the operator of any service N of Springfield ("Vermonter"; 141-148 "Connecticut Yankee"/"Bankers"), that too will be a home for released equipment. Of course we should note, the NTSB has recommended that the Talgos be "sent back where they came from", so WSDOT will have short term demands for equipment.

[eolesen]

We're getting off topic with discussions about Springfield Shuttle... With the announcement last week that WSDOT is retiring its Talgos VI's on the Cascades after the Dupont report's findings, I'd think that would be a priority for any surplus single level equipment vs. adding cars to existing services.

[mtuandrew]

We're getting off topic with discussions about Springfield Shuttle... With the announcement last week that WSDOT is retiring its Talgos VI's on the Cascades after the Dupont report's findings, I'd think that would be a priority for any surplus single level equipment vs. adding cars to existing services.

Luckily Amtrak will have the Hoosier equipment available shortly, speaking of being off topic

[daybeers]

When Hoosier State service ends at the end of June the operational costs will go away (less people paid to operate and service the trains). The stations will cost the same to operate ... with 100% of the costs apportioned to the Cardinal. Amtrak will have one more set of cars they can use as spares. Woo hoo.

And that's the problem: costs will go up for the Cardinal, making a stronger case for cutting the 3x/week train.

[mtuandrew]

And that's the problem: costs will go up for the Cardinal, making a stronger case for cutting the 3x/week train.

It also makes a stronger case for a weekly, retimed Cardinal; the three middle states and strongest traffic generators are governed by strong supporters of this administration and ought not pass up the chance to get their voices heard at USDOT. May as well make it a daylight service from WSS to Indy as well.

[Anthony]

And that's the problem: costs will go up for the Cardinal, making a stronger case for cutting the 3x/week train.

It also makes a stronger case for a weekly, retimed Cardinal; the three middle states and strongest traffic generators are governed by strong supporters of this administration and ought not pass up the chance to get their voices heard at USDOT. May as well make it a daylight service from WSS to Indy as well.

Did you mean a daily Cardinal, not weekly?

[Bob Roberts]

wasn't the original rationale for the 3x per week Cardinal a lack of equipment (particularly VL sleepers)?

[mtuandrew]

Thanks, Anthony, I do mean daily. Weekly would make the problem even worse. EDIT: and would be the door to a private operator taking on CVS to CHW as an excursion.

[Tadman]

Thanks, Anthony, I do mean daily. Weekly would make the problem even worse. EDIT: and would be the door to a private operator taking on CVS to CHW as an excursion.

That's quite the interesting concept. Daily corridor trains for Chicago/Indy/Cinci and Washington/Charlottesville. Friday and Saturday tour train by private operator, perhaps with some WV subsidies thrown in, Cinci-Charlottesville. No sleepers, diners, baggage on the corridor trains. No 79mph for the tour train, which makes it easy for the freights. Of course this could never happen with today's PRIIA.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Well, now that all "stays" have run their course and 851(30) "gets the needle" after arriving CUS, I'm wondering how Train & Engine will be assigned CHI-IND to the tri-weekly Cardinal.

I presume the existing "base" at Rensselaer will be history for which an IND based crew runs to with plenty of rest to go home same day. A CHI based runs to REN with again rest no issue. Now presumably July 1, a CHI based crew will run CHI-IND, but I can envision some days being "held away" for 40 hours, and incurring lodging costs. Likely that assignment will become a "merry go round" with force assigned crews "bidding off" as soon as they can hold something else, resulting in perpetually inexperienced crews who will be at a loss to "get 'er over the road".

Thoughts, anyone?

[justalurker66]

850(30) will be the final Hoosier State, arriving in Indianapolis at 11:39pm (if on time).
There won't be a Chicago to Indy train on July 1st.
Monday's train will be "51(30)" on it's second day of travel. Tuesday will be "50(2)". Wednesday will be the first day without an Amtrak train.

Do crews currently change in Rensselaer?
7:40a Rensselaer to Chicago, 7.75 hrs between arrival and departure in Chicago then arrive 7:35p Rensselaer.

How about have an Indianapolis crew run 51 to Chicago, take Interim Release, then bring 50 south? As long as the total time on duty was less than 12 hours it could be split up within a 24 hour period. Monday night would be an away from home after the Hoosier State ends.

A Chicago based crew would work until Monday: Run 50/850 south (5 hours travel) have Interim Release then run 51/851 north (another 5 hours). As long as there wasn't a lot of on duty time at the terminals 12 hours on duty within the 24 hour period would be possible. But post Hoosier State that doesn't work. Interim Release would only help on an Indianapolis based crew once the Hoosier State ends.

[jhdeasy]

Train 851(26) departed IND 1 hour 32 minutes late, because one or more people at Amtrak forgot they were supposed to carry private car FRANK THOMSON rearmost, properly pointed, from IND to CHI. Thus the crew had to back the entire train from Union Station to Beech Grove, add the car, return to Union Station, and then commence their trip to CHI.

[gokeefe]

Thoughts, anyone?

Mr. Norman,

Correct me if I'm wrong ... This will be the first service loss since the suspension of the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina and (I think) the first outright cancellation since the Three Rivers earlier that same year.

Potentially the longest streak in Amtrak history without a route cancellation?

[Rockingham Racer]

That sounds about right. Anderson et al seem to be sending mixed signals to Congress about what their vision is concerning trains outside the NEC.

[gokeefe]

Of all the trains to loose at least it's one that has minimal impact overall. It also proves that the remaining states and Amtrak are serious about maintaining the integrity of the funding formula.

We would have been worse off if efforts to save the train had damaged the interstate agreement on equitable allocations of cost.

Indiana will be left with "not much" for service and much like Virginia may reverse course in spectacular fashion at some point in the not too distant future.