Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

[Ken W2KB]

Amtrak kills a tube on weekends for patch repairs,the thruput is cut in half due to 1 tube down.
Chao needs to understand that each tube needs a rebuild internally,that takes time to do it right,not weekend patching.

Closing one of the two tunnels results in an approximately 75% decrease in the maximum throughput capacity, as has been public stated by Amtrak and NJ Transit. The number results from the substantial time that trains in opposite directions must wait for the others to pass through and clear the tunnel.

[Backshophoss]

That's why Portal and Gateway need done together,so the ex-PRR tubes get their rebuild done afterwards

[east point]

At first I could not understand the 75% figure. However it appears that there is not enough platform track capacity at NYP to allow for say a full 30 minutes of say 15 trains inbound with 15 trains waiting at NYP to go outbound for 30 minutes. Anyone dispute that ?

[STrRedWolf]

The figure I've heard is that if you go down to 1 tube, the amount of trains going through the tunnels goes from 26 per hour down to 6 per hour. (Wikipedia says the limit is 24 going down to 9).

I can believe that figure of 24 down to 6. Assume 24 one-ways in two tubes. That's 12 in one tube one way no switching... or a train every 5 minutes. The distance between interlocks (BERGEN to A) is 3.4 miles (per Wikimapia measurement). The trains have to clear that entire stretch before switching directions... which takes time.

Anyone know what the speed limit is in this stretch?

[Wash]

Anyone know what the speed limit is in this stretch?

I believe the speed limit in the tubes themselves is 60 mph.

[east point]

Came across this link about modern tunnel safe construction. It is over 45 minutes long so take the time to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cp1Rh-FNOc

[STrRedWolf]

Anyone know what the speed limit is in this stretch?

I believe the speed limit in the tubes themselves is 60 mph.

Mile a minute, so it's roughly 3.4 minutes travel time... but probably slightly more to clear the interlocks and to reconfigure the interlocks, so 5 minutes is probably a good round figure.

12 in one direction in an hour, 6 in a half hour... take out two slots for clearance, track switching... and the trains are going to be idle once the signal hits proceed...

Yeah, 6/hour both directions in one tube is likely the max. 9 is assuming a lot about switching and train speed, which physics doesn't really bear out.

[east point]

The problem IMO is that almost all NJT and some Amtrak trains reverse direction at NYP. There just is not enough tracks at NYP for those two to stack up more before you have to reverse the one bore. Now if there was space at Sunnyside so more trains could go there maybe ? That is of course the problem that one East River bore at a time needs to be shut for maintenance. Also Harold CP still has not been banished and another short term problem is that ACSES still does not work over Harold. Supposed to be fixed next March 2021 Any bets ?

[Ken W2KB]

Trump administration deals another blow to Gateway Tunnel

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration placed a new roadblock in front of the Gateway Tunnel Wednesday when Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao said that a required environmental impact statement won’t be coming any time soon.

The report already is more than two years past the Federal Railroad Administration’s self-imposed March 2018 deadline, and Chao said it won’t be completed as long as the new Hudson River tunnel fails to qualify for federal funding.

https://www.nj.com/politics/2020/03/tru ... unnel.html

[EuroStar]

Trump administration deals another blow to Gateway Tunnel
https://www.nj.com/politics/2020/03/tru ... unnel.html

You posted before I did. Gateway is done for the next 5 or so years. By then barring a recession, the opportunity to build the tunnel box between 11th and 12th will be gone due to the development above the blocks above the surface. Without the EIS the states cannot build the rest of the box even if they funded it 100%. There will be no new capacity into the existing Penn Station ever. Thanks to everyone who cheered when ARC went down.

[Nasadowsk]

Thanks to everyone who cheered when ARC went down.

ARC was an expensive, crappy design that was based onthe asumption that NJT couild change ends in 5 minutes (they can't, not even the LI is that fast). And still was only going to give a handful of extra train's capacity (supposedly 18,assuming the above).

Sure it was foamer compliant. But it was an otherwise crappy plan that would have stuck the state with the overruns, which would have considerable. Look at how East Side Access has become a 'career job' for quite a few people at taxpayer's expense. And the tunnels for that already existed...

[Backshophoss]

ARC was a mistake,landing in a stub ended terminal that was USELESS, to Amtrak and ZERO access to NY Penn trackage.
ARC's remains(Bellmouth/tunnelhead) could be reaimed to hit the tunnelbox instead.
Christi was always short sided to mass transit/NJT,was car "happy" instead.

Again both Portal and gateway need to be linked together,to get higher up on that "List"
Chao is just dumb enough to follow that stupid company line from the current occupant of the white house!

[Greg Moore]

I would argue that ARC's cancellation was actually a GOOD thing.

As others have said, it ended in a station to nowhere, deep under Manhattan, and while it would have freed up space in the current North River Tunnels, it wouldn't have solved the problems with them (especially post Sandy) but would have made it even HARDER to get a new set of tunnels.

"What, you want MORE tunnels? We just built you two, what's wrong with the two you just got? Oh they're deadends? Well should have thought of that before you started digging. You're certainly not getting more money now!"

Of course some of that argument predates the current political climate where no money whatsoever seems to be available as long as you try to fit two of the biggest egos in NY into Washington DC.

[David Benton]

Anyone know why the 12k.v cables need to be encased in concrete ? to prevent damage from a train crash ?? higher voltage cables are run through tunnels , i don't think insulation is the reason ?

[eolesen]

Perhaps to prevent arcing if the tunnels flood?...

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