Hitachi Class 802s adapted for Amtrak

[David Benton]

in old days engine switch involved a verbal blue light, you told engineer to not move cause if you do and I survive I will kill you with Fr**gin wrench.
after entire switch you went up to him with big grin and told hem ok the choo choo is your now.

When I was an apprentice, we were always warned , "you'll get sore nuts if you do that", and we always gullibly asked why , and the answer was , cos I'll kick you in them if you do that.
Nowadays that would probably take a 1/2 hour safety meeting to learn what we learn't real quick .

[Railjunkie]

ok train comes in , before cutting the engine off sufficient hand brakes needs to be applied to cars , foreman has to call in for blue light or car inspectors and electrician can not go on under or between equipment (physical blue light/flag needs to be applied at operating location of engine) , tower operator or Dispatcher has to log event in blue light record and lock access to effected track .

once jumpers are pulled and air connections shut/secured foreman has to cancel blue light, and remove physical blue light/flag , tower operator has to log event in blue light record and restore access to effected track. once track is back to normal the arriving engine can leave the train.

new engine gets switched onto train , foreman has to call in for new blue light, tower operator/dispatcher has to log event and remove access to effected track (physical blue light/flag needs to be applied at operating location of engine)

electricians hook up HEP cables and MU/door control jumpers, car inspector hooks up air. hep can only be activated by either the crafts/foreman or blue light needs to be removed. car inspector commences with brake test after releasing hand brakes, watching brake application on rear of train . foreman once everything is completed has to call tower operator or Dispatcher to release blue light , event has to be logged in Blue light record and dispatcher can now release lock on the track . at this time Conductor gets his authority back and train can leave at his signal .

Amtrak added one more step the air must be dumped from the rear of the train by the inbound or outbound conductor, of course they are busy doing other things like helping passengers off the train a quick turn over between crews, any specials ect ect. Sssooo it generally means either the yard conductor or someone from the mechanical craft must do it. Not hard to do but its an extra step

[east point]

Dutch: So the trains brakes going into emergency when air hoses come apart is not enough? Now hand brakes have to be applied as well ? How many cars or is it a percentage ? Is it due to WASH tracks being on a slope or is that nation wide ?

[WhartonAndNorthern]

Dutch: So the trains brakes going into emergency when air hoses come apart is not enough? Now hand brakes have to be applied as well ? How many cars or is it a percentage ? Is it due to WASH tracks being on a slope or is that nation wide ?

From what little I understand, fluctuations in train line pressure even during emergency application can cause brakes to inadvertently release.

[frequentflyer]

One of the biggest obstacles that affects Amtrak services is having to change engines to venture non-electrified tracks from electrified tracks. This affects the Northeast Regional, Keystone/Pennsylvanian, and the New York services (Empire Service/Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Ethan Allen Express). Sure there's the ALP-45DP from Bombardier but I don't think they're going to be practical for intercity rail services. Instead of investing in another locomotive, Amtrak can invest in a multiple unit. This dual-mode multiple unit would be based off the Hitachi Class 802s that are used in the UK, albeit adapted for American rails (i.e. 3 voltages, crashworthiness, a larger design).

What can Amtrak gain by buying this kind of train set?

* Amtrak can sell most of the P32AC-DMs (which they use for the Empire Service, Maple Leaf, Adirondack and Ethan Allen Express trains) to MNCR and LIRR, though some will remain for Lake Shore Limited trains. This can only happen, however, if Amtrak double-tracks the entire Empire connection and extends the overhead electrification to at least where it merges with the MNCR Hudson Line.
* Amtrak can start selling and even retiring P40s and P42s that would have been used on the Northeast Regional, Pennsylvanian, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, Adirondack and Ethan Allen Express.
* Amtrak can lease or even sell several of the ACS-64s that would have been used for the Northeast Regional and Keystone/Pennsylvanian services to other electric commuter railroads. I can see MNCR using them for Penn Station services as they can do 12 kV 25 Hz and 12 kV 60 Hz (which the M8s can't), MARC for express services on the Penn Line (this would also retire the HHP-8s in use), and SEPTA for a future NEC express line. Additionally, Amtrak can sell some of them to MBTA for services on the Providence line (they really should just let MBTA use electric trains on places that are electrified).
* Just like with the P40s and P42s, Amtrak can also start retiring their Amfleet cars (many of which are past 40 years of age).

I like your idea and I bet Anderson is thinking the same with either Hitachi or Stadler EMU/DMU. It works in Europe and in the US, European designed equipment is used every day, all day. Every time a new piece of equipment debuts no ones likes it but eventually adapt and the criticisms go away.

[east point]

I like your idea and I bet Anderson is thinking the same with either Hitachi or Stadler EMU/DMU. It works in Europe and in the US, European designed equipment is used every day, all day. Every time a new piece of equipment debuts no ones likes it but eventually adapt and the criticisms go away.
[/quote]

Another factor is Amtrak does not need another piece of equipment to maintain. That means getting more unique spare parts. Also training maintenance personnel that will not get proficient since they will only work on them very little. Now if Amtrak can get more service ( meaning much more equipment )then maybe it can buy different types of equipment.

[electricron]

The Stadler FLIRT DMU train sets are already in daily service in Fort Worth. Not one Texan has complained about poor air conditioning, nor have their diesels been prone to overheating. EMU power collecting equipment is not installed on them, but there are space to add them. DMU/EMU versions solutions have already been engineered because these are already in operations in several countries in Europe. But, the DMU versions in Texas are just 4 cars long, in a commuter configuration having just 229 seats. Each existing Amfleet I has around 70 seats, so three of them containing three restrooms would have a larger capacity than a four car DMU FLIRT train with just one restroom. How many trains does Amtrak run with just three Amfleet I cars? None?

[Matt Johnson]

How many trains does Amtrak run with just three Amfleet I cars? None?

Springfield shuttle is typically just two cars. That might be about it since the Keystones went to five car consists well over a decade ago.

[ExCon90]

And from what I've been reading on here there would be more than two Amfleets on the Springfield trains if they had more.

[frequentflyer]

I like your idea and I bet Anderson is thinking the same with either Hitachi or Stadler EMU/DMU. It works in Europe and in the US, European designed equipment is used every day, all day. Every time a new piece of equipment debuts no ones likes it but eventually adapt and the criticisms go away.

Another factor is Amtrak does not need another piece of equipment to maintain. That means getting more unique spare parts. Also training maintenance personnel that will not get proficient since they will only work on them very little. Now if Amtrak can get more service ( meaning much more equipment )then maybe it can buy different types of equipment.
[/quote]

Yes, standardized equipment helps the bottom line, and operations with less spares types. It would be standardized with the DMU. You have the Acela 2s, then the DMUs for Regionals, connect two of them for Thanksgiving rush. This is only for the NEC and its fingers that spread out. Most likely Hitachi would do the mx anyway. That leaves the Siemens coaches and Chargers to run everything else from state supported to eventually LD if rumors are true. There is your standardized Amtrak fleet. Other than some VLIIs and a rapidly getting older Superliner that will most likely be replaced with single level (hello Siemens again).

[David Benton]

No reason why they can't share common parts with other makes etc in the fleet. Brake shoes etc.
Oddball bits tend to be flown out from the manufacturer rather than kept in stock anyway.

[njtmnrrbuff]

When the newer generation Amfleet replacements enter revenue service, there should be enough to make the Springfield/Greenfield to New Haven shuttle trains more than two cars. They should be operating with at least four cars.

[rcthompson04]

Kind of being a lawyer who believes he has clue about rail ??

I love it when the lopsided wheels in your feeble brain start a-humming and steam out a comeback that makes you proud.

Cause then I get to prove you wrong again. And again. And again. It gets boring, and I assume you’ve blocked me on Facebook again because it’s getting to you. No biggie. I still love you.

And for the record, major carriers usually have hundreds of lawyers working in house, plenty more on retainer, and they interface with people like me, who work for the suppliers. Also, The CEO of NS is a lawyer. The concept that we all sit in law offices reading leather bound books and pretend to be in a Grisham movie or Law & Order is cute.
.

Yes. As an in-house finance attorney specializing in equipment and inventory finance (I am the guy who deals with it if it moves in some way), I can testify to how the legal world is depicted on TV is far from the truth and that most attorneys in specialized areas have to know a lot about the business if they are going to do well. For example, you have to know your business to draft return conditions or utilization limits on leases.

Some of us are just transportation nerds. My interests are primarily Amtrak and SEPTA on the railroad side because I have used them on and off for 10 years and lived within a few blocks of various Amtrak, SEPTA and NS services.

[rcthompson04]

When the newer generation Amfleet replacements enter revenue service, there should be enough to make the Springfield/Greenfield to New Haven shuttle trains more than two cars. They should be operating with at least four cars.

I am guessing that means 2-3 trailers and a control car with a locomotive.

[frequentflyer]

Rumor on another Amtrak site is stating Amtrak is seriously looking at the 800 Class type trains for the NEC and non electrified sections.