Railroad Forums 

  • Dual Service PA's

  • Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.
Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

Moderator: Alcoman

 #439489  by ljeppson
 
As I understand it, and I may be wrong, but the Pennsy essentially had two classes of PA's, the passenger PA's, and dual service PA's with lower gearing for both freight and passenger work. I've seen pictures of PRR PA's on ore trains. Do I understand correctly, and how often did PA's draw heavy freight assignments on Pennsy?

 #439609  by scottychaos
 
From the book "PA - Alco's Glamour Girl" by Andy Romano

PRR

Ten PA1's - 5750A-5759A
Five PB1's - 5750B-5758B, even numbers only.

built 1947-1948
Originally geared for 100mph. Relagated to secondary passenger service in 1952.
Regeared from 60:23 to 64:14 for dual service in 1954.
Reclassed AFP20.
Top speed reduced to 80mph.

All delivered with 5-stripes on Brunswick Green.
When dual-service, repainted to 5-stripes on tuscan red.
Those that continued in freight-only service received
the freight scheme, brunswick green with single stripe.
All retired 1962.
PA1's stripped and traded 1 for 1 on DL640's.
all scrapped 1962.

Scot

 #439662  by EDM5970
 
As passenger trains came off, NKP used their PAs in freight service, but only as lead units. They lacked nose MU, but had cab signal, very much needed on the Chicago Division. I've never seen a gear ratio listed, but suspect they were 64:14 like the PRR units were after regearing. That ratio would have worked fine with all the EMDs (62:15) and Alcos (74:18), those ratios good for 65 MPH. (The 752s would simply "adapt".)

 #439668  by ljeppson
 
I take it then that as delivered from Alco, PA's were delivered as passenger units only, and that their gearing changed as they ceased to be top tier passenger power. Were any PA's delivered from Alco with the intent of dual service?

 #439669  by pennsy
 
That certainly goes along with the old PRR philosophy of "the engine goes where it is needed, now." However, I always classed the PA's as one of the most beautiful streamliner Diesels ever. How about the FA's ? Did they also get the same treatment ?

 #439715  by scottychaos
 
pennsy wrote:That certainly goes along with the old PRR philosophy of "the engine goes where it is needed, now." However, I always classed the PA's as one of the most beautiful streamliner Diesels ever. How about the FA's ? Did they also get the same treatment ?
Almost all FA's were designed for freight in the first place.
FA for Freight/
PA for Passenger
so they wouldnt have been regeared for freight, since they were always freight units! :wink:

there were a few FPA's, built for passenger service.
used mostly in Canada.

The Lehigh Valley had a few actual dual-purpose FA's.
with steam generators for passenger use. (they were not FPA's, they were called FA's with steam generators)
but im not sure what their gearing was..

but the vast majority of FA's were built as freight-only units,
geared accordingly.
Its usually only only older passenger units that got regeared for Freight when no longer needed for passenger work..such as PA's and E-units and others im sure..

Scot

 #439717  by EDM5970
 
The FA-1 didn't even have room for a boiler, although you could put one in an FB-1. With the FA-2, equipment was compressed to the point where there was room at the very rear of the unit for a boiler. Been in a few of each-
 #439741  by jr
 
EDM5970 wrote:As passenger trains came off, NKP used their PAs in freight service, but only as lead units. They lacked nose MU, but had cab signal, very much needed on the Chicago Division. I've never seen a gear ratio listed, but suspect they were 64:14
Fifty Years of Nickel Plate Diesels by Peter K. Shepherd lists the NKP PA gear ratio as 62:21, good for 90 mph.

JR

 #447618  by Engineer Spike
 
New Haven used its PA units in freight service.They were origionally in top shore line trains. They got bumped back by newer power, such as FL9, GP9, DL701 (RS11) and H16-44. These road switchers all had boilers. The commuter cuts also cut the need for passenger power.
 #793249  by ex Budd man
 
Pennsy's Baldwin Centipedes got the same treatment. As reliablity issues cropped up they were repainted, down rated and regeared for helper service.
 #828906  by Champlain Division
 
Delaware & Hudson and Erie-Lackawanna also used their PAs in freight service before retiring them.
 #828968  by pennsy
 
That is the normal route for engines that have now become obsolete, redundant, old, etc.

Re:

 #829051  by chucksc
 
scottychaos wrote:
pennsy wrote:That certainly goes along with the old PRR philosophy of "the engine goes where it is needed, now." However, I always classed the PA's as one of the most beautiful streamliner Diesels ever. How about the FA's ? Did they also get the same treatment ?
Almost all FA's were designed for freight in the first place.
FA for Freight/
PA for Passenger
so they wouldnt have been regeared for freight, since they were always freight units! :wink:

there were a few FPA's, built for passenger service.
used mostly in Canada.

The Lehigh Valley had a few actual dual-purpose FA's.
with steam generators for passenger use. (they were not FPA's, they were called FA's with steam generators)
but im not sure what their gearing was..

but the vast majority of FA's were built as freight-only units,
geared accordingly.
Its usually only only older passenger units that got regeared for Freight when no longer needed for passenger work..such as PA's and E-units and others im sure..

Scot
Were not the NH's PAs considered dual service also?
 #829778  by Allen Hazen
 
Chucksc--
Since the New Haven purchased PA as a continuation of their Dl-109 program, and had ordered the Dl-109 specifically for dual service...
I recall reading that late in their New Haven careers the PA were used for electrical division local freights that had to switch non-electrified sidings.
--
At a guess -- you could try posting to the New Haven forum to see if any of its terrifyingly knowledgeable regulars can give you chapter and verse (smile!) -- the Dl-109 would have been more popular than the PA as a freight engine: more weight on drivers.