Ohio River Terminal C415'S for sale

Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

Moderator: Alcoman

Alcoman
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Post by Alcoman » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:59 pm

"Alcoman, you yourself said one of the engines was only worth 15K, and the other 25K..and they got 37K each?!
sounds like they made a VERY smart decision. "


At the time, I think scrap prices were alot lower. Regardless if it was considered a "smart decision" or not, it makes much more sense to sell a runner as such rather than scrap just for the sake of the almighty dollar given the demand for good used switchers at reasonable prices.
I suspect the railroad did not advertise as well as they could have about having the 2 C415's avaliable for sale. The ad in RAILSWAP did not last long and I did not see any ads anywhere else.
In fact, i surprised they did not go thru a broker to sell them such as Marine Diesel LTD.
If the 2 Alcos were toast or wrecked beyond repair, then parting them out and then scrapping is the only way to go. They could have made more money selling parts then the entire locomotive. The bad 8-251 would have fetched a easy $ 25,000 if it was rebuildable and the good one, even more
I am guessing that the TM's would have sold for $5,000 or more each.
The Generator worth $ 20,000 or more each.
It would have exceeded by far the scrap price they did get by a large margin. In excess of $50,000 for each locomotive-in parts.
Do I think that they made a good business move? NO
The W&W did the same thing to a RS-3 and 2 runnable S-6's....another bad move!
That's my 2Cents.

Aji-tater
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Post by Aji-tater » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:53 pm

"...given the demand for good used switchers at reasonable prices".

You just answered the question. They were not GOOD used switchers, they were C415's which are apparently known for wheel slip, are quite uncommon [even though most parts are standard ALCO] and really are not in demand - there's a reason why they were not popular.

And $41K, or anything like it, is not a "reasonable price" for something of that description. If they got $37K from a scrapper, I'd say it was a pretty good price and certainly far more than anybody was going to pay any time soon. The country is full of lonely ALCOs [and other makes as well] sitting in wait for a rescue. Sadly, for most of them the combination of friction bearing trucks, mechanical defects, the reluctance of Class I railroads to move locos at a reasonable price, not to mention that most railroads no longer want ALCOs on the roster, means they will have nothing more to look forward to than a hissing mixture of oxygen and acetylene.

Too bad, but that's the way it is. I'd love to see the C415's saved, but if they were mine and some scrap dealer waved $37K each at me, I'd help light the torch.

wess

Post by wess » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:38 pm

There are some days when reality just plain sucks.

GN 599
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Location: Oregon

Post by GN 599 » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:48 pm

Working with people who ran them in their BN days this is very sad news for me. I've heard some classic rail stories with the 4010 or 4011 being the switch engine involved. What a shame :(

WM 303

Post by WM 303 » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:53 am

> They could have made more money selling parts then the entire locomotive.

That may be true, but coal loading operators don't usually have the manpower to spend on the phone trying to deal in locomotive parts. And had they used a broker, they would have paid a commission based on the total amount of the sold parts, and on top of that they still would have had to be cut up and hauled out.

One other factor that few people in the railfan and preservation communities take into consideration is that a locomotive has thousands of pounds of copper in it. How much of the weight of a traction motor do you suppose is copper? There were 8 of them. How much of the weight of the main generator is attributed to copper? There were 2 of them. Have you checked the price of scrap copper lately? The last time I did (July) it was $1.60 per pound.

Speaking from experience, ORT would have preferred that they be preserved. There were a few inquiries about donations, but in each and every case, when the prospective recipient learned that they would either have to be trucked out, or the wheels would have to be replaced to move by rail, the process came to a screeching halt.

If there is a knowledgeable professional on this forum who has ever replaced wheels or trucked locomotives weighing over 100 tons (don't forget the weight restrictions on loads moving by highway) this might be a good opportunity for you to impress upon the non-believers that it is a very expensive procedure.

N. Todd
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Post by N. Todd » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:28 pm

C415's which are apparently known for wheel slip
I thought the weight distribution thing was fixed a bit on the last 3/4 orders, also assuming that the HiAd trucks helped a bit?

I'm curious, would it be more expensive to replace the wheels on site or do a temporary truck swap with say "type-B" (swing bolster?) trucks? That's to bad that the Alcos couldn't have been saved, and I have heard good things about ORT. That end cab switcher mentioned must have been an S-5.

Alcoman
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Post by Alcoman » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:27 pm

. That end cab switcher mentioned must have been an S-5.[/quote]
I know they had 2 Alco S-4 switchers which I thought went to Pittsbugh somewhere.

If it was the S-5 ( I thought it was long gone by now) That S-5 was the first production version S-5 Alco built. The S-5 that Jeffboat has is an ALCO Demo model.
That S-5 MUST be saved (one of 2 S-5's left).

SOU2645

Post by SOU2645 » Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:45 am

The only end cab switcher on hand other than the SW1500 and NW2 they were using when I visited was an EMD SW9 which they wanted to get rid of.
Larry

N. Todd
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Post by N. Todd » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:58 pm

Excuse me, S-6, not S-5
There is a photo at http://rr-fallenflags.org/misc-o/ohri56abp.jpg

Alcoman
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Post by Alcoman » Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:23 pm

I stand corrected...The S-6 that Ohio River Terminal had was built in 1956, hence the number 56. The first S-6 was sold to Northern Pacific in 1955.

The S-5 that Jeffboat has is THE first production S-5 and demo unit # 909.

N. Todd
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Post by N. Todd » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:24 pm

Regarding PLM C-415 421... reply from loconotes
"Railcar Maint. 421 is on an isolated section of track west of BNSF Argentine (Kansas), about a mile out of the yard."
Anyone in the area willing to take a look for us?

Where is the Jeffboat S-5? Is it near the Econo Rail S-6?

Alcoman
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Post by Alcoman » Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:28 am

The Jeffboat S-5 is still working for Jeffboat in Jeffersonville,Ind as far as I know.
They do have a S-6, but I think it came from the Lousiville,Ky area. The name of the company of which I can't think of right now.

Where is this Econo Rail S-6 located?

N. Todd
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Location: Portland, OR

Post by N. Todd » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:37 pm

Last that I checked, the Econo Rail S-6 (#10) was in Dallas, although it could have moved to Houston or Port of Beaumont.

dlwpocono
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Post by dlwpocono » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:59 pm

Regarding PLM C-415 421... reply from loconotes
"Railcar Maint. 421 is on an isolated section of track west of BNSF Argentine (Kansas), about a mile out of the yard."
Anyone in the area willing to take a look for us?

Still there as of 2/12/06

X-Septoid

Ohio River Terminal C415s for sale

Post by X-Septoid » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:19 pm

About 15 years ago a Morrison-Knudsen Rep. rode one of their engines with me.At the time he said wheelset replacement was $40,000 for a 4 axle engine.Each axle must be dropped and either replaced with similar geared axle or have wheels pulled off and new ones pressed on.There are not many shops with that capability and to have the new axles shipped in by truck and do it without a drop table,well it's a big expensive job.

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