Ohio River Terminal C415'S for sale

Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

Moderator: Alcoman

Alcoman
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Re: Pardon me for saying this....

Post by Alcoman »

pablo wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news - or ideas, but...

There's a reason why these units weren't bought in large numbers in the first place. Then, beyond that, there have been many of them available (percentage-wise, many of them, anyway) and they haven't been grabbed.

When you bring the apparently high price into the equation, these won't likely be sold anytime soon, unless for parts. The problems with the specific block the 415's have will rule them out from many railroads that are ALCO-friendly, and since they aren't currently operating, that rules them out of many others.

A better question to little old selfish me is whether or not there are specific care practices that prolong the life of these. In other words, everybody knows that 244's have some issues, and always did, but when cared for in a specific way (as far as I read) they are durable. Any such luck with a 415? Anything prospective buyers should know?

Dave Becker
All Alco 251 blocks have many parts that are interchangable with each other so using them for parts is not an issue.
8 cylinder blocks are out there if you know where to look. As stated in an earlier post, the one C415 is in operating condition and has been used recently. There are other C415's around. Rock Island # 421 was recently photographed in a freight yard near Omaha,NE. The Buffalo Southern has one. There are three of them in Iowa-all in operating condition as far as I know. There is one in Strasburg in a Museum in operating condtion-BTW, that one also has Hi-Ad trucks.
One of the reasons they did not get sold in large numbers is because Alco was late in coming out with it(1966) at a time when the market was slow.
If Alco had stayed in business, they may have sold more of these.
While I agree the price is high for these, even the 4010 is repairable which makes it possible to have both units runners if the railroad wishes to invest the money into them. The problems these have are common ones which can be found on any make of locomotive including EMD and GE .

N. Todd
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Post by N. Todd »

Rock Island # 421 was recently photographed in a freight yard near Omaha,NE
CRIP 424. Was renumbered for some odd reason. Who owns it? Supposedly PLM sold it. I haven't heard anything of it since late 2003.

John is right, had Alco lasted for a little bit longer they would have sold more. It is not known for certain that NSS wanted some, but notice that both domestic and C415 production suddenly picked up in the last half of 1968:
Columbia & Cowlitz and Chehalis Western (x2)- both Weyerhaeuser properties. If the C415 was sooo bad, how come they both held on to their units for so many decades and even aquired a second-hand one?
Monongahela Connecting (1) and a simotaineous order for a T-6 with Hi-Ads
SP&S (x2). Over the years since 1969 it has been speculated wether or not an order was placed or considered for four more. The man to answer that question passed a few years ago, but did answer as to why Alcos made the majority of SP&S motive power.

Sandy Burton
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C-415s

Post by Sandy Burton »

Don't count on the M&E looking at these. They have recently purchased two EMDs, one a switcher and a GP9.

Sandy

BSOR Patarak
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Rock Island 415s

Post by BSOR Patarak »

Alcoman wrote:
Rock Island # 421 was recently photographed in a freight yard near Omaha,NE
N. Todd wrote:
CRIP 424. Was renumbered for some odd reason. Who owns it? Supposedly PLM sold it. I haven't heard anything of it since late 2003.
On the subject of the Rock Island 421. It is miss represented as the 424 very often. At some point it did wear the number of 424 during it's stay with PLM. I have pictures of the cab that you can clearly see the '4' painted over the '1'. The 4 RI units that Brandon Rail acquired were the 421, 422, 423 and 424. 424 and 422 were cut up for parts to make the 421 and 423 operable. An electrical cabinet and misc. parts survive from one of the two scrap units. They came along with the BSOR's 423.

John mentions that it was recently photographed in Omaha? Last I heard it was on a siding in Morris, Kansas on the BNSF with one axle removed. I believe this was as of Jan of 04. Has it moved since then? John, do you know if its current owner or destination? I'd like to get out and see this one too.

Also, on the unit at CEECO in Washington....I heard this 415 was repowered with a Cat block. Is this true?

Pat Connors
BSOR - home of RI 423

Alcoman
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Post by Alcoman »

"John mentions that it was recently photographed in Omaha? Last I heard it was on a siding in Morris, Kansas on the BNSF with one axle removed. I believe this was as of Jan of 04. Has it moved since then? John, do you know if its current owner or destination? I'd like to get out and see this one too. "

Pat,
As soon as I can find the picture, I will recheck the information to make sure that it is not old info.
Not to confuse things, look at this found on Utah Rails:
"CRI&P 424 was sold to Brandon Corporation, 23 June 1981; renumbered to Brandon 424, painted in Brandon's sapphire blue in August 1981; sold to PLM Railcar Maintenance Co., used at Miles City, Mont. (as PLMX 421), then at Pauline, Kansas; stored at Topeka, Kansas, by June 1992; stored at Morris, Kansas, by June 1996, still numbered as 421; possibly sold to Buffalo Southern (BSOR); seen in transit in Kansas City, Kansas, early 2003."
John

BSOR Patarak
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Post by BSOR Patarak »

I have to appologize John...I mistyped about the 421 and 424. My last post should have said that it was indeed the 421 that was cut up while the 424 survived. The picture I have is from January 1998 taken in Morris Kansas. It shows the repainted 421 over the '424'. I can see the 4 coming through under the repainted one. I still have to look...but I thought I also had a later email confirming it still in the Kansas area. I do remember someone mentioning it being prepared to move though. Not sure if it ever did.

Pat

Alcoman
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Post by Alcoman »

Pat, This is very much of a mystery. I still have not located the photo (on the web somewhere). Hope someone can show us a recent photo to as its current status.
Any work done on the BS C415?

sallenparks
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Post by sallenparks »

I know this wont be to popular of a post but the 4010&4011 could find a good home on theWNY&P not for use but for the HIAD trucks back up for the C430's.Good to be able to post again LOVE this forum.

Aji-tater
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Post by Aji-tater »

well if they were bought to take the trucks from that would not be what I call a good home I'd call it being parted out and we know where that leads. Scrap.

Alcoman
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Post by Alcoman »

Both are repairable. Why would anyone want to part them out at this stage?

WM 303

More Bad News, Pablo

Post by WM 303 »

It was confirmed to me earlier this week by a friend in the Huntington, WV area that the Ohio River Terminal C-415s were scrapped on site last July by Mansbach Metals, along with the Alco end cab switcher that had been stored at ORT.

It's hard to say no to $250+/ton scrap prices in the real world.

Alcoman
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Re: More Bad News, Pablo

Post by Alcoman »

WM 303 wrote:It was confirmed to me earlier this week by a friend in the Huntington, WV area that the Ohio River Terminal C-415s were scrapped on site last July by Mansbach Metals, along with the Alco end cab switcher that had been stored at ORT.

It's hard to say no to $250+/ton scrap prices in the real world.
It hard to understand that kind of logic(scrapping) when you have at least one locomotive that is a runner...except for wheels.
Based on the above scrap per ton figure, that means ORT got $37,500 for each C415 locomotive. Thats quite a bit less than they were asking $(41K).
Gosh; did anyone try to offer..Scrap value for each?

How many EMD's or GE's do you know getting scrapped right now because of these scrap prices????
Another ALCO bites the dust needlessly!!
Makes me madder than a wet hen to hear this!

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scottychaos
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Re: More Bad News, Pablo

Post by scottychaos »

Alcoman wrote:
that means ORT got $37,500 for each C415 locomotive. Thats quite a bit less than they were asking $(41K).
actually, 37,000 *isnt* quite a bit less than 41k..its very close.
and..that 37,000 is probably FAR more money than they would have got for the units by selling them.

Alcoman, you yourself said one of the engines was only worth 15K, and the other 25K..and they got 37K each?!
sounds like they made a VERY smart decision.

I agree, it sucks to have any rare Alco scrapped..
but..suppose you had a classic car in rough shape.
you were hoping to sell it for 41K
no one would buy it for that.
someone offered you 10K maybe.
but then a scrapper comes along and says you can get 37K for it..
hmmmmm..what would you do?
37K or 10K?
or..in the case of these engines, the actual choice was "37K or nothing"
I dont think anyone was knocking down their door to buy these engines..
and even if they were, no one was willing to pay 37K for them..

its just life.. :(
a business has to make money.
most people would do the same with their own property.

of course, if we were talking about a LV engine, I would feel differently! and I would be much more outraged! :wink:
then it would be much harder for me to "practice what I preach"
its a fine line..accepting the hard realities of the world vs. wanting to preserve EVERY rare locomotive..
I struggle with it too..

Scot

rdganthracite

Post by rdganthracite »

John is right, had Alco lasted for a little bit longer they would have sold more. It is not known for certain that NSS wanted some, but notice that both domestic and C415 production suddenly picked up in the last half of 1968:
I do know that PRSL wanted to purchase C415s but could not arrange financing. GMAC was only too happy to give them financing for GP38s which is what they ended up buying.

ALCO missed a huge customer for the C415 with SP. SP was wanting to replace all of its older switchers and was most pleased with its newer ALCOs. So they bought a handfull of C415s to test. SP was very displeased with the C415's slipperyness due to the improper weight distribution and complained loudly to ALCO. ALCO was unable to find a suitable fix and SP ended up buying SW1500s.

wess

Post by wess »

It gets very depressing sometimes to drop in on a thread like this. But business does not require feelings, only a clean conscience

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