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  • NYSW (ex-NYC C430s)

  • Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.
Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

Moderator: Alcoman

 #364592  by NYC21295
 
Group,

A few points about the C430 and the four axle Hi-Ad truck.

- The Reading units did receive the trucks, as well as the traction motors, auxiliary generator and main power contactors, all rebuilt from 2 RS-3's that were traded in. Even if they had wanted Hi-Ads, they were not availiable yet, and, if they were, it is doubtful that the Reading would have been interested, as they would not be interchangable with the large number double equalized trucks already in use by the Reading.

They did, however, own C630's with both Tri mounts and the six axle Hi-Ad. I do not have an answer for why as of yet, hope to have more info to go in Volume two of the series on the Centuries for Withers.

- Keep in mind that none of the railroads that ordered C430's wanted the Hi-Ad. The NYC's reasoning has been stated above, as with the Readings and the GB&W took them to stay within weight limits, as they were approx. 8,000lbs lighter than a set of double equalized trucks.

-By the way, GB&W 315 is preserved at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay.

- As for the M&E its experience woth HI-Ads, I remember talking with Ben Friedland while working on the C430 articlew for Diesel Era in the mid 1990s. He said that they had problems with the Hi-Ads cracking, I believe that everybody did, and that, being a casting, you could not just repair the cracks with welding alone, they had to be stress relieved. He looked for spare trucks, I remember talking about a trip to Nalarano to look at the trucks from the former Long Island C420's, but they were worn out and of no use. You could have put double equalized trucks under them, same as Reading 5211 and 5212, but they did not ride as well. What he was thinking about was finding some Blombergs and trying them. Although this was not an easy fix, it makes sense, as parts for the Hi-Ads were expensive, and parts for the Blombergs would have been much easier to get.

Hope this helps,

Stephen McMillan

 #377559  by Luther Brefo
 
After "crawling all over truck" (figuratively) during my last trip to Lakeville, I discovered just one number set. It reads from top down:

33501
9
8-66 C

I believe the 33501 and 9 together are the serial number.

While the 8-66 might mean the date of manufacture as July of 1966.

Or it could be interpreted as truck number 33501 cast on July 9th, 1966.

I do not quite understand what the C means as this is certainly not a C truck.

Pictures will be coming shortly as I get them loaded onto my site.

This truck is a General Steel Castings truck. GSC was founded/owned in part by Alco and Baldwin at some point in time.

 #384568  by oibu
 
WHat about SCL- did they nto want Hi-ads either?

I'm surprised to hear the hi-ads weren't warmly receieved, being in large part the protoype for both MLW's and GE's later truck designs which were both well-liked.

 #384735  by Matt K Dettman
 
oibu wrote:What about SCL- did they not want Hi-ads either?

I'm surprised to hear the hi-ads weren't warmly received, being in large part the protoype for both MLW's and GE's later truck designs which were both well-liked.
It's not that the Hi-Ad truck wasn't well received, it was more like a newly developed product option that was released in the twilight of Alco locomotive production. Rather it wasn't tested in adequate numbers and Alco didn't have time or the finances to do enough field testing.

 #386224  by Paul
 
When I worked at Squeek at Little Ferry (did you know we refferd to Cooperstown as "Big Ferry"?) there were one or two sets of Hyads that were stripped down next to the roundhouse. They were cracked so non-servicable. I believe it was 3002 that was scrapped at Little Ferry along with the FJ&G S-2s and ex L&N C-420 because G.E required locomotives for trade in on the first order of the Dash 8s. BTW, at that time, located in the junk pile were many new tires for the drive wheels of GG-1s, and , for what it's worth...GE used the 752 TMs on the Dash 9s as well.

 #390577  by Cactus Jack
 
Just a clarification from Paul's message

The 3008 was scrapped in Little Ferry

3002 in Utica, but minus one Hi-Ad as an AAR B truck was under one end - I do not know where the missing Hi-Ad went

3004 was scrapped in Binghamton, and I think the trucks went to the scrapper.

The Hi-Ads were prone to cracking and had to be carefully inspected. I always thought they rode rougher than an AAR B and much rougher than any EMD. As far as adhesion, well, guess I never noted them to be any better than the AAR B. Just my opinion

 #390578  by Cactus Jack
 
Just a clarification from Paul's message

The 3008 was scrapped in Little Ferry

3002 in Utica, but minus one Hi-Ad as an AAR B truck was under one end - I do not know where the missing Hi-Ad went

3004 was scrapped in Binghamton, and I think the trucks went to the scrapper.

The Hi-Ads were prone to cracking and had to be carefully inspected. I always thought they rode rougher than an AAR B and much rougher than any EMD. As far as adhesion, well, guess I never noted them to be any better than the AAR B. Just my opinion

 #390579  by Cactus Jack
 
Just a clarification from Paul's message

The 3008 was scrapped in Little Ferry

3002 in Utica, but minus one Hi-Ad as an AAR B truck was under one end - I do not know where the missing Hi-Ad went

3004 was scrapped in Binghamton, and I think the trucks went to the scrapper.

The Hi-Ads were prone to cracking and had to be carefully inspected. I always thought they rode rougher than an AAR B and much rougher than any EMD. As far as adhesion, well, guess I never noted them to be any better than the AAR B. Just my opinion

 #390686  by scottychaos
 
Cactus Jack wrote:
3002 in Utica, but minus one Hi-Ad as an AAR B truck was under one end -I do not know where the missing Hi-Ad went
LAL has a single Hi-Ad truck sitting in the Lakeville yard..
that could be it.

Scot

 #392793  by N_DL640A
 
Alcoman wrote:3008 was rebuilt around 1983-84 and went back into service. At some point after that, it threw 3 connecting rods thru the block. Rather than replace the block after spending approx $150,000 plus to rebuid the locomotive, it was parted out and the carbody(in good condition) was cut up for scrap.

BTW, the rebuilding included the following: New in-house rebuilt 16-251 engine, rebuilt turbo,new copper cable, rebuilt electrical cabinet, new traction motors, and rebuilt trucks. The shop also replaced the lube oil and cooling water. Then both the inside of the cab, the 251 engine,trucks(silver) and entire carbody repainted.

It was determined later that a wrist pin was not installed properly which caused the engine to self distruct.

Rather then repair this locomotive after spending so much time and money on it, the railroad scrapped it! What a waste!

I hope that helps.
In case you are wondering, I was working for NYSW in Little Ferry at the time.
Alcoman
Where was the 3008 rebuilt?

 #392815  by Alcoman
 
In house at Little Ferry.

 #393221  by N_DL640A
 
Too bad that shop is gone now. I've heard that it was in pretty bad shape, though.
What was your position with NYSW?

 #393248  by Alcoman
 
It was in bad shape. I was hired to be a helper. All sorts of tasks from working on locomotives to painting. I even shoveled coal to feed the coal fired heating system.

 #393292  by N_DL640A
 
I'm a diesel electrician with NYSW, but also end up doing engine work, etc. as needed. It's a good company to work for. The C430s left a short while before I was hired, but I've done plenty of work on the Cartier units!

 #409408  by Luther Brefo
 
While browsing through some old issues of Railpace, I read (I forget the issue at the moment) that in the 1980's some if not all of the NYSW C430s received some attention at Rome Locomotive Works.

What was the extent of this work?