What makes it a...?

Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

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What makes it a...?

Post by Luther Brefo »

What excatly makes an ALCo C424m different from the C424?

Same question for C630m versus C630...

I can't seem to find anything on the subject.
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Post by metman499 »

The C424m was rebuilt by GE. These engines ran on the D&H and were derated to 2000 horsepower. A C630m was a C630 built in Canada by Montreal Locomotive Works before Alco ceased production in the US. At that point further 6 axle 3000 hp locos from Montreal were classed M630.
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Post by Alcoman »

There is a little more to the C424m. The standard C424 is rated at 2400 hp using 16 cylinders while a C424m was rebuilt using a 12 cylinder 251 engine.

To confuse things a little more, The "m" was also used to indicate an upgraded locomotive such as GB&W RS-11m which was upgraded from 1800 to 2000 hp using the same 12 cylinder engine.

When the D&H rebuilt its RS-3's, they then called them RS-3u "upgraded".


What Makes it a ...?

Post by alcoiowa »

The C424m came to pass in the 1979 when the Genesee and Wyoming offered the D&H three locomotives in lieu of increased rate divisions for handling the salt from Retsof to the B&M at Mechanicville. The GNWR was originally thinking of new GP39-2's since the D&H already had 40 of them. Turned out that new locomotives were more than they wanted to spend, so the talks turned to used Alco C-424's that would be remanufactured. I was CMO at the time and I did not want as-built C-424's because 1} they had 16 cylinder engines and the D&H Alco fleet had 12 cylinder engines. There are some parts that are not totally interchangable between the 12 and 16 cylinder engines and 2} the C-424 had the multi-step shunt controller for transition which was a source of loading problems and maintenance headaches. However, we said, if you want to use the C-424 as a core, rewire it to the Lehigh Valley C-420 wiring diagram and replace the 16 cylinder engine with a 12 cylinder engine, we are interested. Genesee and Wyoming agreed and as they say, the rest is history. The 1st three, 461-463 were delivered in 1979, then later, in early 1980 the D&H got 6 more, 451-456, with D&H financing. The last 6 are slightly different, having a redesigned rear cab bulkhead control panel and a cooling air system in the Main Generator compartment.
Of the 3 GNWR financed units, one, 461, was wrecked and the other 2 went to the Minnesota Commercial. Since then, one, I believe 462 was sold to National Railway Equipmet Co and the other is in service.
Of the 6 D&H units, 4 are on the LA&L/WNY&P and 2 were scrapped by Guilford.
I guess my only regret in this project was that we did not install Alternators instead of DC Main Generators.

Fred Cheney


Post by krazytrain »

What was the point of rebuilding the c 424 s with new derated 2000 horsepower engines? It seems to make more sense to just rebuild the engine.

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Post by GOLDEN-ARM »

It appears they were really just "converted" into C-420's, in a C-424 wrapper. This made parts interchangeability with the acquired LV roster of C-420's a "no brainer", from the CMO's point of view. Updates in the electrical department, I'm sure, but basically just adding to the C-420 fleet, from the looks of it...... :-D

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Post by Allen Hazen »

That's a very interesting bit of history, Fred Cheney! Tyank you very much for posting it.
My recollection is that the actual conversion work was done by GE, at the old Erie Railroad shops (which GE had bought). Did GE provide detailed engineering? Had they made a proposal to D&H and/or GNWR, or was it a matter of D&H/GNWR going to them with blueprints and saying "What would you charge to do this?"

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Post by MEC407 »

These units were remanufacted by GE at Hornell, NY, and were pretty darn reliable from what I've heard.
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Post by Allen Hazen »

Hornell! I was having a "senior moment" when I posted, and couldn't remember where the ex-Erie shops that were at the time owned by GE (which has since sold them) were! Thanks!

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Post by mxdata »

Some of us remember the Hornell shops very well. Hard to believe the Erie Railroad found such a remote place in the middle of New York state to locate them. By the early 1970s the town still had only two motels, and they were both run by funeral homes. Probably a lot different now.
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C-424ms in use today

Post by Matt Langworthy »

MEC407 wrote:These units were remanufacted by GE at Hornell, NY, and were pretty darn reliable from what I've heard.
Four of them are still running now. The four surviving Guilford units have since been sold LAL which uses them on its original mainline, the B&H and WNYP.
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