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  • Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.
Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

Moderator: Alcoman

 #1484604  by MEC407
 
Engineer Spike wrote:Maybe someone could enlighten me as to whether the 16-251 is now capable of 4000 hp, as opposed to CP’s 18-251, of the 1970s.
Fairbanks-Morse no longer has any info on the 251 on their web site, but I seem to recall that the 16-251 was available at 4000 HP for stationary and marine applications when I looked at the spec sheet on their web site a few years ago. The version used in the VIA Rail LRC locomotives was rated at 3700, which isn't that far from 4000, and that was almost 40 years ago. It's reasonable to think that it could easily produce 4000 HP today with all the technological advances that have been made.
 #1484621  by Alcoman
 
FM/ALCO no longer builds new 251 blocks as I recently learned. You might as well forget meeting "Tier" standards of any level due to that alone. The best hope is rebuilding existing blocks which may allow for "grandfathered" emissions standards.
 #1490509  by sdmuleman
 
mtuandrew wrote:Re: castings, I'd be more interested in welding up a truck frame that looked like a casting. It'd be a matter of ordering the right bar stock (looks like 2" x 8" or 2" x 10" at maximum depth?), sub-arc welding it into a rough approximation of the DL-109's equalizer bar shapes, water-jet-cutting it to the exact shape via CNC, and finishing it with a good heat treatment.
Any idea how difficult it is to do large high presion weldments like that? It's not trival and would take a decent amount of engineering in additon to the shop/machinery requirements. Probably not going to SAW weld too much either since that process doesn't work well on fillet, complex shape or out of position joints.

The amount of metal you'd have to remove and the complexity of the machining/programming to do detail finish work in order to trace the profile you want would be quite substanital as well. Not going to be any more economically practical than a custom casting.

Might be able to cast the side frames and then weld them up into the final frame assembly - indiviual side frames would be simpler and smaller castings to make, and then welding up the interior structure would be much more practical than the entire assembly and cosmetic machining.
 #1490585  by Allen Hazen
 
Truck frames for diesels are one thing, but what about the one-piece bed-frames for steam locomotives? (*). The people behind the project to build a new Pennsylvania Railroad T-1 apparently think they can manage: I think by welding. So apparently at least some people think modern welding technology IS capable of reproducing traditionally cast parts of big locomotives.
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(*). Since this IS a string on new built Alcos... I will record my personal feeling that I wish the people behind the PRR T-1 project had had the good sense instead to try to create..."New York Central 5475." Or maybe "New York Central 5501."
(Which said, any big new steam locomotive would be impressive, and I hope they succeed.)
 #1490676  by renrut44
 
Alcoman wrote:FM/ALCO no longer builds new 251 blocks as I recently learned. You might as well forget meeting "Tier" standards of any level due to that alone. The best hope is rebuilding existing blocks which may allow for "grandfathered" emissions standards.
Try DLW Varanasi, a division of Indian Railways, they are still producing 6 and 16 cylinder D blocks
18 new 6 cylinder 251D engines were built in 2017 for locos exported to Myanmar

India Railways is still running around 3000 units with the 16 cylinder 251 engine

Tunisia is about to receive 20 GT42AC to replace MX620, so there will be the possibility of used 12 cylinder engines

Indian Railways purchased the rights to build the 251 (not a license), so have developed independently