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  • Brightline Expansion - Jacksonville

  • This is a forum for all operations, both current and planned, of Brightline, formerly All Aboard Florida and Virgin Trains USA:
    Websites: Current Brightline
    Virgin USA
    Virgin UK
This is a forum for all operations, both current and planned, of Brightline, formerly All Aboard Florida and Virgin Trains USA:
Websites: Current Brightline
Virgin USA
Virgin UK

Moderator: CRail

 #1473461  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Jeff Smith wrote:Sour grapes:
Again, let us note that the cited piece is the opinion of the Gannett Treasure Coast Newspapers editorial board. My comment made at the FEC Forum topic applies equally over here:

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 #1487136  by lirrelectrician
 
lpetrich wrote: I think that the Kennedy Space Center is the world's most accessible spaceport (List of rocket launch sites - Wikipedia). Most others are in much more out-of-the-way locations. It's like airports but much worse.

The closest town to the KSC is Titusville, with population 44 thousand. It's also on the coast between Miami and Jacksonville, while Orlando is inland. Distances: Titusville: 13 mi, Orlando: 46 mi, Jacksonville: 150 mi, Miami: 220 mi (20 km, 74 km, 240 km, 350 km).

Orlando's SunRail commuter-rail system currently runs between Sand Lake Road and DeBary, a distance of about 32 mi. It is being extended southward to Poinciana (Southern Expansion), will make it extend 61 mi. Adding a planned station to the north, DeLong, gives about 71 mi. This means that the line will extend about 30 - 35 mi north and south from Orlando. Titusville is 40 mi east of Orlando, and I don't know what rail lines might be available for that.

So SunRail is also a possibility for the KSC.
Keep in mind there is a large cruise ship terminal in Port Canaveral. So a Brightline station near there would be a traffic generator for passengers going on cruises too.
 #1492470  by benboston
 
Yes, I have stopped at this cruise terminal and there isn't much to do nearby. It would be really nice to be able to take the train quickly to say Orlando, Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm, Palm Coast, etc. Definitely would get high usage here from people on the cruises.
Last edited by Jeff Smith on Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Nesting quote removed
 #1493120  by Arlington
 
The power of global connections at MCO and that Virgin Rail would run a connecting hub there has the potential to drive success beyond just local trip generation.
 #1495811  by Jeff Smith
 
Jacksonville Expansion in the news: WJCT.org

The Jaxson: Jacksonville Could Get Train Route To Other Florida Cities
...
Closer to home, the potential expansion map route includes an extension of the Florida system to Jacksonville utilizing the Florida East Coast Railway corridor. This could bring economic opportunities to Northeast Florida that could introduce transformation change for Downtown Jacksonville and LaVilla, which is the location of the former Jacksonville Terminal and the Jacksonville Transportation Authority’s Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center. Already under construction, the intermodal center will possibly connect intercity rail systems like Virgin Trains USA and Amtrak with local public transit modes such as bus rapid transit, the Skyway, local bus routes and future bike share.

Assuming a resolution on the future of the Prime Osborn Convention Center involves its ultimate relocation and replacement, the former rail station property immediately becomes a prime location for transit oriented development.
...
 #1495813  by Jeff Smith
 
More on Jacksonville work: WJCT.org

The Jaxson: Grant Could Help Bring Passenger Rail Downtown; Ease San Marco Train Woes
Though it has largely flown under the radar, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority and its partners have quietly launched an ambitious bid that could ultimately bring passenger rail back to Downtown Jacksonville and spark millions in development in the process.

First steps are underway with a $35 million federal grant application to update the city's aging freight rail infrastructure. If successful, the improvements could lead the way to restoring a passenger station at the Prime Osborn for the first time in over 40 years, potentially bringing Amtrak, Brightline, and commuter rail downtown. Could it work?
...
JTA, along with the City of Jacksonville and the Florida Department of Transportation have applied for a $35 million federal grant through the Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvement program. The project, supported by CSX and Florida East Coast Railway, would restore the city’s rail and signaling infrastructure, particularly on the FEC corridor. If successful, it would fix San Marco’s freight train chokepoint problem.
...
These improvements could also open the door for bringing passenger rail back downtown. Restoring rail service to the Prime F. Osborn Convention Center — built as the Jacksonville Union Terminal— has long been a dream of downtown and transit advocates. The grand building in LaVilla was the country’s largest passenger station south of Washington, D.C. when it opened in 1919, serving 20,000 passengers a day. In 1974, declining use led Amtrak to move its services five miles northwest to a much smaller building colorfully known as an “Amshack.”
...
 #1530306  by Jeff Smith
 
FL: Virgin Trains expands in Florida. Will it ever reach Jacksonville?: MassTransitMag.com

Lots of other destinations discussed as well.
...
Jacksonville
For the time being, Virgin doesn't plan to expand to Jacksonville. However, the city is on the rail company's radar. In 2014, the rail carrier secured passenger rail easement rights on the Florida East Coast Railway for an extension into Jacksonville and access to tourist destinations like Daytona Beach and St. Augustine.

In the meantime, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority continues to move forward with the construction of the Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center. When complete by the end of March 2020, the $59 million transportation center will feature improved connectivity between intercity bus, local bus, JTA Flyer bus rapid transit and JTA Skyway services. A future phase will include Amtrak, commuter rail and additional intercity rail services such as Virgin. However, JTA is not actively engaged in talks with Virgin or Amtrak on the possibility of bringing intercity passenger rail back to downtown.

According to JTA spokesman David Cawton, "As ridership, connectivity, economic development and population increases, this will give us the justification to ask for the means to add passenger rail to Downtown Jacksonville in the future. But we cannot set a timeline, and begin discussions with Amtrak (or anyone else), without setting the platform for ridership."
...
 #1611180  by sextant
 
Because it is the “Pittsburgh “ of Florida Brightline does not want to even think of coming here??? Even though FEC starts here?
 #1611187  by west point
 
JAX might spread Brightline construction forces too thin. Vegas, Tampa, and present work to finish up MIA - Orlando is about all I would want. Despite the best layed plan there will be some glitches. Just how bad needing fixing to be determined. Then there isthe Sabastian river bridge double tracking to be done later.
 #1611668  by sextant
 
I would have to think what the real estate situation is in JAX because Flanger and FEC are using Brightline as a real estate development tool.. plenty of Industrial Sites here with rail access but also a ton of ramshackle housing here as well. JAX needs help and has needed help for a long time. Just walk the neighborhoods around the CSX yards in the city . We need to bring back Jacksonville Union Station as a real train station again not the vacant convention center that is there now
 #1611761  by Arlington
 
Completely reasonable long term end If the economics of Brightline prove to be sustainable,
Phase 1: SW Florida MIA-FLL-WPB metropolis
Phase 1.2: SW Florida infill stations / local/express overlay
Phase 2: MCO via Cocoa & Deseret Ranch
----------------------------------------- We Are Here ---------------------------------
Phase 2.2: International Drive & I-4 Tie
Phase 2.3: Cruise Spurs? Port Canaveral & Port of Miami, & C
Phase 3: Tampa
Phase 3.2 Probably more infill (Deseret Ranch / Morm-lando ?)
--------------------------------------- Highly Speculative Long Term
Phase 4: Sarasota/Bradenton
Phase 5: North from I-4 or Cocoa to Daytona...and then to Palm Coast, St Augustine & Jax
 #1613633  by JohnFromJersey
 
I personally don't really see a reason for Brightline to go into Jacksonville. Brightline's entire market is attracting tourists as passengers - I don't think anyone really goes on vacation to Jacksonville... But going up that way opens St Augustine as a destination.

The furthest north Brightline should go, IMO, is to Daytona. I think an Orlando-Daytona Beach connection would be lucratively successful, especially if Brightline can maintain 100+ MPH speeds the entire way.
 #1613646  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. John, astounding as it is, Brightline is here to stay, but as a ward of the State, and not any kind of private sector business venture.

Brightline has never once "made numbers" with the Miami-West Palm "joyride". The politically connected holders of the Private Activity bonds will get bailed out by the State.

As I've noted, Florida is quite pro-passenger rail - just so long as the operator is not Amtrak.