Railroad Forums 

For discussion of the various Class III Lines of WATCO Companies. Class II holdings should be discussed in the relevant separate forums above.

Their website is here: http://www.watcocompanies.com/
A list of their holdings is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watco_Companies
 #1489159  by pumpers
 
johnpbarlow wrote:From Ithaca.com of July 2018: "Lansing power plant to re-power with natural gas"

https://www.ithaca.com/news/tompkins_co ... f4ca3.html
If I am reading it right, it says 1 of the 2 units is switching to gas, and one remaining coal for the time being. So where is the coal coming from if the salt place is the only RR customer, mentioned above by Matt L? Do they just have a big stockpile, maybe only running intermittently when the price is right?

The articles goes on to say all coal plants in NY will be shutdown by 2020. Don't know if that is a real plan or just wishful thinking.
 #1489173  by TrainDetainer
 
IIRC, if Miliken had a full coal pile, it was enough for both units run at full power for about a month. So by extension, with one unit shut down the most the other could go would be about two months without replenishment, so there would have to be trains to feed the other unit. IIRC the normal train size was 98 cars (that's all you can stuff in the yard) and about 10k tons of coal. It takes several trainloads to build up the pile. Last time I asked they were getting about a week's burn per trainload, but I don't recall what percentage of output that was.

As information, any Google satellite view is usually from one to three years old, unless you're lucky enough to catch it at update time. The 'image date' they post at the bottom is almost always wrong. There are many images that currently show a 2017 or 2018 date that I know as absolute fact are at least three years old. I don't even bother looking at them anymore unless it's to try some ballpark-style dating. Any view of coal in their satellite view is more than likely long burned and replaced many times over.
 #1489182  by nydepot
 
TrainDetainer wrote:As information, any Google satellite view is usually from one to three years old, unless you're lucky enough to catch it at update time. The 'image date' they post at the bottom is almost always wrong. There are many images that currently show a 2017 or 2018 date that I know as absolute fact are at least three years old. I don't even bother looking at them anymore unless it's to try some ballpark-style dating. Any view of coal in their satellite view is more than likely long burned and replaced many times over.
I said it as a point of reference.
Last edited by nydepot on Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1489211  by johnpbarlow
 
The impression I have about Milliken operation (maybe incorrect) is that it's a peaking plant so it's not generating full power continuously. I participate in mulitple NS Southern Tier Facebook pages where daily train operations are relentlessly posted and the Milliken bound coal trains (symbol 524) have not been seen or heard from in several months (May 2018?).
 #1489222  by Matt Langworthy
 
pumpers wrote:
johnpbarlow wrote:From Ithaca.com of July 2018: "Lansing power plant to re-power with natural gas"

https://www.ithaca.com/news/tompkins_co ... f4ca3.html
If I am reading it right, it says 1 of the 2 units is switching to gas, and one remaining coal for the time being. So where is the coal coming from if the salt place is the only RR customer, mentioned above by Matt L? Do they just have a big stockpile, maybe only running intermittently when the price is right?

The articles goes on to say all coal plants in NY will be shutdown by 2020. Don't know if that is a real plan or just wishful thinking.
As John stated, there have been no coal trains for Milliken since the spring. As I understand the situation, this plant will convert to natural gas for both units, so little (if any) coal will be shipped there in the future. Hence my comment about the traffic being only salt at this time.
 #1489223  by Matt Langworthy
 
lvrr325 wrote:A dinner train from Ithaca to Ludlowville would do well.
A dinner train would be scenic, but unlikely to happen. The same LHRY employee referenced earlier informed me that NS tends to discourage excursion operations on the routes they lease to shortlines. Given NS's track record of leasing instead of selling spin-offs (in most cases), the Ithaca Secondary will most likely be leased to Watco.
 #1489292  by lvrr325
 
Can you imagine what happens when a train of those cars derails?

The cars would have to be so heavily constructed capacity could be an issue relative to their economy to use.

When I look at used vehicles for sale, the ones that have CNG tanks for natural gas, the tank has a certification and expires after a certain date. I would expect a rail car would have to have a similar cert and similar lifespan, which is relatively short compared to a typical rail car.
 #1489313  by Matt Langworthy
 
Road vehicles encounter salt, so it is possible that CNG tanks would have more stringent regulations for road vehicles than trains.

Given the history of NIMBYs in the Finger Lakes, they may have forced the Ludlowville plant to ship by truck with the mistaken belief trucks have a better safety record.
 #1489345  by TrainDetainer
 
Both LNG and CNG are currently prohibited for rail transportation (49CFR102.101). FRA has authorized testing of LNG rail transportation in a few instances (at least one fairly recently), but the general prohibition still stands. Also, 49CFR 173.319 provides for cryogenic gas transportation, which would include LNG (not CNG), but apparently it needs some revision to accommodate LNG characteristics.
 #1490635  by Matt Langworthy
 
Official notice has been filed with the STB for Watco to lease the Ithaca Secondary from MP 272 (Sayre, PA) to MP 321 (Lansing, NY), as per: https://www.stb.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7 ... enDocument" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new operation will be called the Ithaca Central RR. I couldn't find an exact date for ICR to begin operations, although the filing indicates it will happen soon.
 #1491129  by Matt Langworthy
 
More information on the Ithaca Central RR from: http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/:
Pittsburg, Kan.-based Watco wants to lease NS track running from Sayre, Pa., to Lansing, N.Y., about 48.8 miles.

<snipped>

There are currently four customers, shipping salt, coal, plastics, and magnesium chloride, she says. The Class 2 track will initially be served by two SD40 locomotives.
She (in the quote) refers to Watco rep Tracie VanBecelaere. NS has stated they are working with Watco because of the latter's focus on serving local customers. Both RRs are waiting for a response from the STB. The lease has been completed, so I would be surprised if STB denies Watco's application to operate the line