Fired from a RR Job

[MR77100]

This is a real heartbreak. I obtained a job with UP at a Conductor in Iowa. I went through all of the classroom training and OJT. The probation period was 60 days, and on the 59th day, I was dismissed for riding the front of a tank car! I was instructed to do so by my mentor who was training me for the yard I was working at. Is this something that will prevent me from every obtaining another railroad job? I hope that my childhood dream is not shattered.

[cockerhamsg]

Probably. Or I should say thats what we were told, too. That if you get canned while in training or probation that you're done for the RR in general. But you knew better than to ride the FRONT of a tank car surely. You mean the end platform, right? Not the sill step?

[MR77100]

I rode the front platform but I was behind the bar and OUTSIDE the gauge of the rail. The foreman I was working with told me to do so and said it was alright. I was following orders.

[csxhobo]

I don't know the details. I don't know how UP works but you should contact your local chairman and talk to him. It cant hurt any.

[COEN77]

Just because the mentor you were assigned to says do something doesn't make it right. Railroading is about making the right decisions sometimes within seconds. You had the right to not do something that was against the rules. We had that problem on CSX with conductors/yard foreman incorporationing old ways into making a move. Today railroads want it done their way and no other. Unfortunately you fall into the cracks being on probation. I don't even know if the union can do anything. It would seem fitting if the mentor also gets repremanded. I have seen where a conductor/yard foreman got time in the street while the trainee was ruled not accountable. It would seem that the person who told you to ride the tanker would do the right thing and go to management on your behalf. Don't know if that would help.

[Desertdweller]

I've never trained a brakeman, but I have trained many engineers. In my experience, without exception, the instructor is held responsible for the actions of his student. Your instructor should have been the one to be disciplined. And he should have manned up and taken responsibility after telling you it was OK.

Les

[jz441]

Unfortunately, the 60 day probation is in the UTU's contract. There is nothing that union can do here, as they have agreed to this probationary period. You on the other hand, should have known better. They gave you the rule book and it's your responsibility to know it. If my conductor was to tell me that my train is good for 70 mph, and I don't double check it, I would risk my job and possibly the public's safety . I certainly dont rely on someone just telling me whats ok and whats not on the railroad. Many have gotten hired and fired in the past 2 decades, but I am still gainfully employed.
If this was your childhood dream job, you should have taken it more seriously. With some luck, you may get a second chance on a short line.

[COEN77]

Seeing he was on probation that would mean he had completed his training. What I remember that's when the 60 days starts before being formally in the union. The word "mentor" instead of conductor/yard foremen instructor. Even though I'm retired I occasionally still get calls from locomotive engineers that asked me to be their mentor.

[slchub]

I did just that Desert. I was the conductor on the Brigham local (overnight local north of Salt Lake City) and had a brakeman and a new switchman (she actually). I should have had her under my wing all night but I felt comfortable with her and relied upon her skills that she had shown that morning that she was okay. Not! She did not know the layout of the yard and shoved a cut of cars into a track too far and over a trailing point switch that MOW had locked out. She had the engineer pull ahead and we plopped three cards on the ground splitting the switch.

I took the fall. As it should have been. She was still in her 60 day derail but she made it through and marked up because I told the MOP (UP manager) the situation and used my get out of jail card to avoid discipline. That was one week prior to my moving to Las Vegas to become a student engineer.

Mistakes happen and you have to know your territory and rules. If you are not sure you STOP and talk about it. Guessing never works. Assumptions will get guys killed. If in doubt check it out.

[Desertdweller]

Yeah. I took responsibility for a young conductor after a shoving accident. Only after getting down and standing where he was giving me signals could I see it was a blind shove. He had a couple strikes against him already, and was on thin ice. I felt sorry for him.

He repaid the favor by blaming the whole thing on me. No good deed goes unpunished.

Les

[COEN77]

Yeah. I took responsibility for a young conductor after a shoving accident. Only after getting down and standing where he was giving me signals could I see it was a blind shove. He had a couple strikes against him already, and was on thin ice. I felt sorry for him.

He repaid the favor by blaming the whole thing on me. No good deed goes unpunished.

Les

LOL! That happens a lot. Right before retiring I was working a yard pusher job. Extra board was exhausted so I worked over on the next shift. Yardmaster wanted a cut of cars transferred to another yard. My new conductor coupled me up but never walked it, cut in the air, or knocked off handbrakes. I also had an engineer trainee that night. Conductor was in the shack supposedly waiting on paperwork. My 4 hours was running out a train came into the yard but hogged on the east end. The YM needed the locomotives back and placed on the west end of the train. We were instructed to go get them. CSX had just came out with a new rule about yard track clearance points in the absence of a yellow tye it was the clearance point plus one car lenght. I was in the clear but short on the one car. I couldn't shove back no air & handbrakes at least not with a GP-30M. YM stated it wasn't a problem someone would be getting onboard to take the cut. Next day showed up to work the train was in the same track minus locomotives. I was informed the TM's were investigating who left it. I went to the office told them what happened. After they did their investigation the YM didn't remember anything. I got 5 days in the street which was fine collected the run off insurance & RRB unemployment. The conductor put it all on me. His UTU LC asked me for a favor to take the blame seeing I was retiring anyways. I told him to tell the conductor to take the 5 days I wouldn't lie in a formal investigation. I did manage to keep the engineer trainee out of it by not claiming the trainee pay on the time ticket. LOL!

[rovetherr]

This is a real heartbreak. I obtained a job with UP at a Conductor in Iowa. I went through all of the classroom training and OJT. The probation period was 60 days, and on the 59th day, I was dismissed for riding the front of a tank car! I was instructed to do so by my mentor who was training me for the yard I was working at. Is this something that will prevent me from every obtaining another railroad job? I hope that my childhood dream is not shattered.

Probably not with another class 1, at least for some time. A smaller shortline or switching RR might be more forgiving. A fellow engineer got fired for speeding at where I work, he got rehired at a switching RR and got his card back after serving his month off after having his license revoked for one of the "deadly sins".

[supernova1972]

I didn't think any roads would allow riding a tanker on a shove anymore? I know CSX doesn't. If you are marked up, you should know the rules and saying "I was told it was ok" is never an excuse. I would say don't tell railroads you apply for but with the background checks they do, they'd probably find out. Maybe a regional or shortline would be ok but I'd say no class 1 would.

[tellem]

Ok so you made it past your New hire, Brakeman OJT, Conductor course, Conductor OJT, RCO class and RCO OJT + Cert ride. You manage to get yourself fired your last day of Derail???

during your Derail you don't have to listen to anybody at that point your done with training and on your own. besides 5 months of solid railroad training and you cant seem to grasp the basics of riding tank cars?

sounds like management just wanted to get rid of you and looking for a excuse. Judging from your pictures you look like a foamer and nobody likes working around foamers.

I wouldn't want you working with me either.

[Desertdweller]

Tellem:

This guy got himself fired on his last day of probation. He should have used his responsibility to not follow an order in violation of the safety rules he had been trained under. He knows he screwed up, and wants another chance.

I don't think he will get that chance on the UP, but maybe by getting on another railroad and establishing a good work record, he can get on a different class one eventually.

He came to this forum looking for advice. You don't seem to have any to give, just personal attacks.

You must be a real piece of work. I wouldn't want you working with me, either.

Les