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  • Looking for original, existing track of Lehigh Valley

  • Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.
Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.

Moderator: scottychaos

 #896964  by 19th Cent Mike
 
Friends of the Lehigh Valley,

My RR interest is principally in 19th century railroading and steam in the first half of the 20th century. One of my RR hobbies is finding/exploring & walking old, abandoned or little used track that hasn’t been torn up. I’d much rather walk old track than go to the gym.

I live in northern Virginia and last fall attended a conference in southern NY. I asked a local person about any RR museums and he mentioned the LV in Sayre, PA. The museum was closed but I sort of stumbled on what is left of the Sayre yards. Wanting to find our more about the LV, I bought two of Mike Bednar’s books, "LV Facilities Vols 2 & 3" and found that I had eaten at the restaurant pictured on page 16 of Vol 3.

I plan to return to that area this year and next for seminars and hope to use free time to explore. Therefore, I am asking for any help in finding original LV tracks that may still exist. I’m trying not to waste time looking for track that is long gone. Therefore it would also be very helpful if you know of existing track, if you could please refer to towns or a street address that is shown on mapquest.com so that I can drive to it with a GPS. By the same token, if you know where LV track has been torn up, please tell me.

1. Manchester: If you look on mapquest.com at Sayre, PA, the old LV yards are clearly visible. On page 34 of LV Facilities Vol 3 there is a picture of the Manchester yards that are described as “two and a half miles long,” yet if you look at Manchester, NY on mapquest, there is almost nothing showing that resembles a railroad yard. Were the Manchester yard tracks completely pulled up? Is there anything left? If there is anything worth looking at, can you please give me a street address in Manchester so that I can drive there with a GPS?

2. I see from the bird’s eye view map on page 3 of Vol 3 that the LV mainline ran up the east side of Seneca lake to Geneva. Is there any of this mainline track still in existence? Did the mainline go through Ithaca? My Kalmbach reprint of the 1928 RR atlas shows a LV line from Van Etten to Geneva west of Ithaca. Is any of this track still in existence?

3. An NS maintenance-of-way worker told me there was some old track on the west that went up through Watkins Glen? What railroads ran up the west side of the lake? Are they still in use? By whom?

4. Are there any other LV yards or branchlines anywhere that still have existing track?

5. The LV mainline track ran south from Sayre through Towanda down through Tunhannock to Scranton. Is there any of that original track still in existence?

6. Lastly, does anyone know of any other abandoned (but not torn up) or little used track worth exploring in PA or NY?

Nothing gets my history juices flowing like walking old abandoned track, and imagining what steam behemoths ran there.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me and thanks to Mike Bednar for his marvelous books and helping preserve the history of the Lehigh Valley!
 #897558  by TB Diamond
 
To address some of your queries, by number:

1.) No wonder you could not see much of the former Manchester yard complex on mapquest. The Lehigh Valley Railroad closed the yard in 1969. The westbound side was torn out in the early 1970s and many structures including the LCL facility, the icing dock and the stock yards were razed about the same time. The yard was abandoned on 01 April 1976. The eastbound side plus some other tracks were torn out in 1977. Vandals set fire to the yard office in early 1977 and the bunk house was demolished at some point in time later. Two large manufacturing concerns now cover much of the land the yard was located on. The coaling bunker was demolished several years ago as was the LCL concrete docks. The only structures remaining are the roundhouse and the engine service facility support building and they are in derelict condition. The turntable and pit are extant but are buried under fill dirt. What little of the yard that was not developed has reverted to nature. The FGLK (former ONCT) has one track running through the former yard.

2.) The Seneca Freight Bypass Ordnance Int.-Van Etten Jct. is long gone, scrapped 1978-1979. Most of the r/o/w is now under private ownership and is posted against tresspassing. Two bridges of note survive, the one over Mill Creek near Lodi and another over NY Rt. 224 in Odessa. The Burdett station still stands and is utilized by a recycling firm. FGLK utilizes the line Ordnance Int.-Geneva Jct. plus a section of the old Geneva yard lead to move cars in and out of storage at the former Seneca Army Depot. The line is posted against tresspassing.

The map dj_... gave the link to is a bit outdated and contains some errors. By the number on the map site:

1.) Tifft Yard is not a part of NS. The yard is gone and is now a nature preserve. CSX uses one former LVRR yard track which they refer to as Lehigh 17.

5.) The Lehigh remains extant between near Shortsville east of Manchester to west of Victor, NY, not Manchester-Victor.

8.) The LVRR E&C Branch remnant in Cortland is now used only for rail car storage. There was a lumber company customer west of NY Rt. 281 but this concern no longer utilizes rail service.

9.) The former Auburn Branch segment is from Goodrich Settlement to North Harford, Not Owego-Richford. This line sees fairly heavy use by the Owego & Harford.

There are many rail trails utilizing the former LVRR r/o/w in NYS. One notable and very well developed example is in Monroe County from the Genesee River to the Ontario County line.
 #898557  by umtrr-author
 
With respect to the Lehigh Valley Trail, which is the last item that TB Diamond mentioned, I bicycled the entire route last year. The trail is mostly "stone dust" and good for bikes, with an occassional bit of pavement and a few small sections of "street running".

There is the "main line" which runs from just west of the Genesee River, connecting with the Genesee Valley Greenway which is mostly an old Pennsylvania Railroad right of way, to just east of the Monroe/Ontario County Line and connection to the Auburn Trail which is an old New York Central right of way.

There is also a spur of the trail which is the first few miles of the branch that ran from Rochester Junction to Rochester. A small piece of the old Rochester Branch remains in operation by the Livonia, Avon and Lakeville so the rail trail doesn't reach all the way into Rochester. There is a short isolated section of the Trail in the towns of Henrietta and Brighton as well.

Here's a link for more information:
http://www.monroecounty.gov/parks-lehighvalley.php

There is of course no original trackage, but some of the LV bridges remain in place including the one over the Genesee River.

It hasn't been mentioned yet on this thread that the main building of the LV's passenger station in Rochester survives. It's now a well known BBQ place.
 #898917  by Bethlehem Jct.
 
With respect to item #5:
The LV did not serve Scranton in any capacity. The main line proceeded along the North Branch of Susquehanna River from Towanda to Wilkes-Barre, which is on also on river. It went through W-B then climbed over the mountain south of town on its way (geographically) south toward the Lehigh River and White Haven. Through freights and some passenger trains bypassed Wilkes-Barre entirely on the "Mountain Cuttoff" which eliminated the steep grade into WB.

As for Item 3:
The Pennsylvania (nee Northern Central) was on the west side of Seneca lake. It traversed north from Williamsport through Elmira, Horseheads, and Penn Yan to Sodus Point with a branch to Canandaigua. The New York Central's line to Newbury Jct, PA (Williamsport) also traversed that area. I think the line that went through Watkins Glen was the Pennsy.
 #899116  by Lehighton_Man
 
As Bethlehem Jct. Mentioned, it was only PRR that went into the heart of Watkins Glen. FGLK now utilizes some of the track to service the Cargill Salt Mine under Seneca Lake, and at the very end for some small car storage. South of that, there are no rails left, though most of it is preserved as a trail, with a few good bridges still remaining. As for other trails, the former Lehigh Valley Naples Branch has a trail section on it. From Cayward Cross Rd. South of Middlesex all the way into Naples is a hiking path. Can be used for bicycling, but I do not reccomend it. Very rough ride, and the weeds grow tall in the summer, even though it is a walking path. If your lucky, you might find some relics, such as a Joint bar that I pulled from the ROW, but stupidly enough, did not keep. (Didn't have enough room in my pockets on my cargo shorts at the time. :P) Rest of the ROW is private land, most being Cow Pastures or densely wooded and impassible, including a few down bridges.
 #899152  by scottychaos
 
Bethlehem Jct. wrote:

As for Item 3:
The Pennsylvania (nee Northern Central) was on the west side of Seneca lake. It traversed north from Williamsport through Elmira, Horseheads, and Penn Yan to Sodus Point with a branch to Canandaigua. The New York Central's line to Newbury Jct, PA (Williamsport) also traversed that area. I think the line that went through Watkins Glen was the Pennsy.
See map at the bottom of this page:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/FGLK/

For historic rail lines Vs. current use..
"mouse over" the map to toggle between 1908 and today.

More maps here:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/maps/

Scot
 #900269  by Bethlehem Jct.
 
scottychaos wrote:
Bethlehem Jct. wrote:

As for Item 3:
The Pennsylvania (nee Northern Central) was on the west side of Seneca lake. It traversed north from Williamsport through Elmira, Horseheads, and Penn Yan to Sodus Point with a branch to Canandaigua. The New York Central's line to Newbury Jct, PA (Williamsport) also traversed that area. I think the line that went through Watkins Glen was the Pennsy.
See map at the bottom of this page:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/FGLK/

For historic rail lines Vs. current use..
"mouse over" the map to toggle between 1908 and today.

More maps here:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/maps/

Scot
Thanks. You have some great stuff on your website. I've seen it before, but too often forget about it. :(
 #902511  by lvrr325
 
I passed through Burdett in Nov. 2009 and the station was vacant, the scrap firm illustrated in the end of the Facilities book was gone, including the scale shown in front of the building. It wasn't derelict by any means, but no one was around and this was during business hours on a weekday.

Canastota to Cazenovia is a hiking trail now, on the former EC&N.

Actually the former mainline from Kendaia to Geneva Jct. is used mostly for car storage by the Finger Lakes at this time, it's liable to be plugged with cars. I hiked a part of this in 1995 when it was active to the Depot and there's not a whole lot to see. Unless you want to look for the albino deer. (I did see them).

The vast majority of LV track that remains is active on some level, not abandoned in place. As such hiking those tracks involves tresspassing, although the risk you run is minimal on some portions, or a visit to a shortline's office may net a liability release. Even the LV in Sayre is still in use, by NS and shortline Lehigh Railway, which has become quite busy with the Marcellus Shale gas projects.

I'm not sure you can find any great quantity of abandoned-in-place trackage here in NY; about all I can think of is a chunk of West Shore that was last used to serve a quarry, and it's so overgrown and covered with trash it's barely hikable. Plus it's private property belonging to who knows who.
 #902594  by TB Diamond
 
Stopped at the ex-LVRR Burdett station on 02 October 2010. At the time the structure was being utilized as a part of Burdett Wood Yard. Their sign related: "Buyers Of Round Wood Biomass - Acceptng Clean Waste Wood - Commercial Scales Available" The sign further related that the concern was owned by Treesource Solutions LLC.

The station building appeared to be well maintained.
 #1018573  by RussNelson
 
I can't find any good place to post this question about the Auburn Branch, but this topic seems like all the usual culprits are here. and it's mentioned in passing. :)

I think I've found some disconnected abandoned rails about halfway between Pittsford and Mendon. They're just east of Railroad Mills Road and north of Sturbridge Lane, parallel to but northeast of Carriage Court. West of Powder Mill Park and east of East Road. Does that ring a bell with anybody? Here they are on OpenStreetMap: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/661244780 and on Mapper.acme.com: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.04597,-77.49288&z=19&t=S and just for fun, on the historic USGS topo maps: http://rutlandtrail.org/mapview.cgi?sca ... +-77.49288
 #1018600  by scottychaos
 
Russ,
do you mean you think you found small segments of trackage still in place? with ties and rail?
or are you asking what line this is? (its the NYC Auburn Road)
not quite sure what are saying/asking..

thanks,
Scot
 #1018697  by dj_paige
 
Shouldn't be hard to get to that location and take a phew photos.

I'd be surprised if the Auburn Road still had rails in place, especially at such an accessible location, but I don't know for sure.