Elmira Cortland & Northern/Elmira-Ithaca Questions

[lvrr325]

According to the ICC report approving abandonment of the LV between Van Etten and Horseheads, there was a grade westbound between Swartwood and Park Station that required doubling the hill with trains of more than three cars. In the 1930s a freight car was a lot lighter than the average car of today (!).

What power were they running down here, and just how bad percentage wise/length was that grade? I assume that they must have run flat across the valley, I think elsewhere it notes that the freight main parallelled the EC&N to Swartwood. Being that next year it will have been abanonded for 80 years, I'm guessing the ROW won't be easily traced.

Not noted in here, but it has me wondering if there was a similar grade going towards Ithaca? I know the former passenger main drops down a ways, so it probably wouldn't be as severe. Also, it may not be there but as of late Conrail there was a stub track in Spencer that aimed straight east where the main curves back northward towards Ithaca - it appeared to just be a b/o setout and place for hirailers to set on and off, or MOW to park. Is that a remnant of the EC&N, or some other siding? It's off the map sections I have for that area.

[scottychaos]

taking a look at the 1902 topo map:

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=NY

the railroad leaves the valley at Swartwood, runs along the 1100 foot line for a bit, then when it leaves the 1100 foot line it quickly climbs to the top of the grade at Park station, 1500 feet.

200 pixels = 1 mile.
100 pixels = 2640 feet
the railroad travels 500 pixels between 1100 and 1500 feet.
500 pixels = 13,200 feet.

a rise of 400 feet in 13,200 feet = 3% grade.
pretty steep!

even so, "more than three cars" sounds like an exageration to me..
a small locomotive of the 1920's could probably handle 10 cars up a 3% grade I would think..but I dont really know.

I dont think there were any grades that steep around Ithaca..
the steepest grade was westbound after Ithaca, climbing the hill toward Trumansburg. Passegner trains often needed helpers on that grade.

The Ithaca station is at 400 feet.
The railroad hit 900 feet at Trumansburg.
500 feet in 12 miles = average grade of under 1%. (.007..almost 1%)(naturally some sections would be steeper than that..its not totally even.)

Scot

[lvrr325]

I'm asking about grades on the EC&N as it meandered to East Ithaca; having ridden the passenger main from Sayre to Ithaca I'm quite familiar with the grade (downgrade with loads, northbound by compass) on that line. It's enough to require good train handling skills if you don't want a heavy slack run-in.

As for the westbound operation, this is taken from the I.C.C. official report, not someone's journal. I have no doubt it's accurate with regard to the actual operating procedure used at the time. It notes carloads for several years for each community, notes when passenger service was discontinued, notes all customers along the route, etc. and it's unlikely to me they would exaggerate something that residents of the area could easily disprove if they wanted to stop the abandonment.



Thanks -

[scottychaos]

Doesnt look like any significant grades between Van Etten and East Ithaca on the EC&N.

Van Etten is at 1,000 feet:
http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=NY

then its a flat run along the valley, parallel to the passenger main, to Spencer.

The two lines split at Spencer.
EC&N is still a flat valley run over to Candor:
http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=NY

Then fairly level all the way to Ithaca:
http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=NY

the line stays right around the 900-1,000 foot mark the whole way.
no major grades to speak of.

and yes, the stub track heading toward Spencer would be a remnant of the EC&N..since it sticks out along the EC&N ROW right where the passenger main turns north to Ithaca.

http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.r10x ... &encType=1

Originally the UI&E/EC&N were two seperate mainlines between VanEtten and Spencer, and later the LV consolidated it to one route that split at Spencer.

Scot

[keeper1616]

Being that next year it will have been abanonded for 80 years, I'm guessing the ROW won't be easily traced.

I wouldn't be so sure. I grew up within biking distance of park station and swartwood, and I know exactly where the line used to climb the hill. It's pretty grown-over, but its still very easy to find. The rest of the main-line ROW is still perfectly clear and used as a ATV/snowmobile trail.

[TB Diamond]

Back in the spring of 1977 I hiked the old EC&N r/o/w From Swartwood to Park Station. Had no problems with brush as the entire line in this area is in deep woodland. Therefore, brush growth was at a minimum, at least it was 30 years ago. The only difficulty experienced was the climb in and out of the deep gulley which was under the first bridge. The second, higher bridge was located over a more shallow gully which was easily negotiated. Some telegraph poles and even wires were still extant at the time.

The spur off the Ithaca branch mentioned above was, indeed a remnant of the EC&N. For many years it served a feed mill near downtown Spencer and remained intact into the early 1970s.

[lvrr325]

Originally the UI&E/EC&N were two seperate mainlines between VanEtten and Spencer, and later the LV consolidated it to one route that split at Spencer.

Scot

According to what I've read, the UI&E became the EC&N - do you mean the LV main into Ithaca (Geneva, Ithaca & Sayre) and the EC&N were seperate, parallel routes? That is the appearance I'm getting from the small val maps I've aquired lately.

[TB Diamond]

Believe, if recall is correct, that the EC&N, after entering the valley at Swartwood, paralleled the LVRR Seneca Freight Bypass to just west of Van Etten where it crossed the LV on a bridge (stone abutments still extant in the mid-1970s). It then recrossed the LV in Van Etten at grade right about where the present-day NY Route 34 passes over the Ithaca Branch. The EC&N then continued to parallel the LV all the way to Spencer where the two lines diverged. The Spencer station had a operator bay window on both sides of the depot, one facing the EC&N and the other the Ithaca Branch. The E&C between Van Etten and Spencer was abandoned in 1933. Thereafter E&C Branch trains operated over the Ithaca Branch between those two points, this from THE GANGLY COUNTRY COUSIN by Herb trice.

[lvrr325]

That can be confirmed by the LV abandonment print I have, although the bridge crossing isn't so clear from the map.

[TB Diamond]

The USGS State of New York 1/62500 topographic map, Wavery Quadrangle, Edition of 1902 shows very plainly the EC&N overpass of the LVRR Seneca Freight Bypass just west of Van Etten.

BTW, there were two interlocking towers in the Van Etten locale, one at Van Etten Jct. and another where the EC&N crossed the LVRR Ithaca Branch at grade in the village of Van Etten.

[Lehighrrgreg]

I have another question about the EC&N....

If anyone has ever seen the back side of the Bouille Electric building at Fifth Street in Elmira, near CP Elmira or "FS" for you Erie guys, the building sure looks like an engine house when viewed from the NS Tier line. Its a huge old structure with wooden planking and rounded top barn doors that really indicate something other than its current purpose. Im by no means a LV predecessor afficionado but isnt this where the EC&N began? Would this be a structural relic of the EC&N?

Thanks,
Greg

[Matt Langworthy]

You may be onto something, Greg. The EC&N began at 5th Street, and built a station there in 1884. That station itself was demolished in 1950, but I don't know what happened to any buildings there.

[Lehighrrgreg]

Ive got to go back up to Elmira tomorrow so I think im going to take some pictures of said building and see if it piques anyone else's curiousity or recollection.

[TB Diamond]

Greg:
Look forward to the results of your exploration of the Elmira area. The Lehigh Valley Railroad freight house in Elmira was demolished in the late 1970s to make way for the Clemens Center Parkway. The EC&N passenger station was located at the corner of Fifth and Baldwin Streets, FYI.

[Matt Langworthy]

Seeing as how I have a shiny new digital camera, I'll try to take some shots when I visit my family in Elmira this summer.