I've been away from the forum for longer than I realized. I'd like to address a couple of comments:
It might work if a vehicle was disabled or trapped by other traffic on a crossing, but stopping distance for the train is still going to be a major factor.
Keep in mind that the state chapters of OL, which do most of the public education, are run mostly (or entirely) by volunteers, so that affects how often the message can be shared. A bigger problem is that reception of the safety messages (and acceptance of same) is also largely voluntary. Public service announcements on TV and radio have been and are still being used, but viewers/listeners need to absorb the message. Probably the only time the OL message gets a "captive audience" is if a school requests a presentation for its students. Again, how much of a point the message makes with any individual is up to that individual.
[For the record, I'm not affiliated with Operation Lifesaver Inc. or any of its state organizations.]
When was the last time you saw a motorist slow down and look both ways at a crossing? That's what advance warning signs (W10-1) and pavement markings are supposed to mean, and it's required by law in my state and probably many if not all other states. I'd like to think it's still taught in driver education courses, but in my experience, most drivers don't slow down, let alone "observe in both directions" as the Maine law requires. I've never seen it enforced.
Back in 2010 or so, some crossings on our local (state DOT-owned) line were upgraded from passive warnings to lights and gates. One was on a road that I think is posted 35 MPH for motor vehicles, but has a "less than 90°" angle, so it could be rather scary. The other two were on slow side side streets in residential areas of one town. One of those was on a down-sloped part of the street, and several crossings through that town had been stop-and-protect for the railroad before the lights and gates were installed. One crossing in that town was closed, over little or no objection from residents, but at another street, a woman complained that the new signal mast on one side was too close to her lawn. (She even painted the mast brown one day. It quickly got repainted, and the local police warned her not to do it again.)
"Closed corridors" (as in NC) and grade separation are great, but the cost shouldn't be dumped on the railroads, especially when some "highway users" argue against closing any particular crossings. (The railroads aren't the ones being impatient and disregarding stop signals.)
*"Crossing protection" only protects if highway users pay attention to it. "You can't fix stupid."
Nasadowsk wrote:Of course, with PTC in place, it's all that much easier to design a system that sits at the grade crossing and drops signals if there's an incursion.Do you mean "drops signals" for an approaching train if a vehicle enters a crossing when the train is about to enter the crossing? I don't think that's going to work too well once the train is in the crossing circuit, which is what triggers the active protection* if the crossing has lights, etc.
It might work if a vehicle was disabled or trapped by other traffic on a crossing, but stopping distance for the train is still going to be a major factor.
Or we can beat the Operation Lifesaver drum because that's been such a smashing success...Operation Lifesaver Inc. has its "Three E's": Education, Engineering, and Enforcement. All three are needed for both highway/rail crossing safety and anti-trespassing safety. "Highway users"--motorists, bicyclists, and pedestrians--need to first receive the OL message, and then they need to heed the message.
Keep in mind that the state chapters of OL, which do most of the public education, are run mostly (or entirely) by volunteers, so that affects how often the message can be shared. A bigger problem is that reception of the safety messages (and acceptance of same) is also largely voluntary. Public service announcements on TV and radio have been and are still being used, but viewers/listeners need to absorb the message. Probably the only time the OL message gets a "captive audience" is if a school requests a presentation for its students. Again, how much of a point the message makes with any individual is up to that individual.
[For the record, I'm not affiliated with Operation Lifesaver Inc. or any of its state organizations.]
When was the last time you saw a motorist slow down and look both ways at a crossing? That's what advance warning signs (W10-1) and pavement markings are supposed to mean, and it's required by law in my state and probably many if not all other states. I'd like to think it's still taught in driver education courses, but in my experience, most drivers don't slow down, let alone "observe in both directions" as the Maine law requires. I've never seen it enforced.
Tadman wrote:I would also posit that a $15b unfunded mandate on the carriers for better grade crossing safety, although totally unfair, would have far better ROI in terms of lives and dollars than PTC.I think it would be beyond "totally unfair." Highway users running crossings is a "highway problem." Any costs for upgrades of gates, etc., should come from highway funds. As mentioned above, the FRA has a formula for what crossings need upgrading first, and every crossing is ranked according to the need. Funding is distributed to the states, and the states parcel it out according to the formula.
Back in 2010 or so, some crossings on our local (state DOT-owned) line were upgraded from passive warnings to lights and gates. One was on a road that I think is posted 35 MPH for motor vehicles, but has a "less than 90°" angle, so it could be rather scary. The other two were on slow side side streets in residential areas of one town. One of those was on a down-sloped part of the street, and several crossings through that town had been stop-and-protect for the railroad before the lights and gates were installed. One crossing in that town was closed, over little or no objection from residents, but at another street, a woman complained that the new signal mast on one side was too close to her lawn. (She even painted the mast brown one day. It quickly got repainted, and the local police warned her not to do it again.)
"Closed corridors" (as in NC) and grade separation are great, but the cost shouldn't be dumped on the railroads, especially when some "highway users" argue against closing any particular crossings. (The railroads aren't the ones being impatient and disregarding stop signals.)
*"Crossing protection" only protects if highway users pay attention to it. "You can't fix stupid."