UH60L wrote:Not sure if anyone has heard, but they are also approving a study of extendding the WES system to Salem. So, if that were to happen, how would those two system swork togeather, along wiht the P&W freight trains. My personal oppinion is that they would have to stick with one or the other passenger service on the old OE line, or it would jsut get two congested. Although, it may be easier, for the most part, to double track the old OE than it wwould be the UP. I know some palces are tight, but a majority of it is through farmland (please correct me if I'm wrong on this). I know it is at least between Salem and Portland, causee I grew up across the tracks from the old OE station at Waconda road. Back then (70's & 80's) it was owned/run by the BN.
I don't think the two daily P&W freight trains are the problem. The problem is between Wilsonville and Salem is a lot of nothing, compared with the existing development along the original rail route (the Southern Pacific, now Union Pacific, valley main) and old U.S. Highway 99E. Not to mention that Amtrak already runs over there.
The OE could be easily double-tracked; but for what? Amtrak couldn't run on it very easily. Not everyone who is in Salem wants to go to Washington County.
UH60L wrote:I'm mostly familiar with the Salem area of th OE. I knwo there is a cross over between the OE and UP in Salem at the industrial area, close to the Salem Parkway. The problem is, I believe it runs north end at the Up and South end at the OE. If it were the other way around, they might be able to use it to cross over and still stop at the Salem station without having to negotiate the tight turns in downtown Salem. Not sure if there is a speed restriction on that cross over though.
That track is...um...NOT suitable! First of all the track was designed for BN trains from Vancouver to head south on the SP, then swing westward on the connection onto the OE and continue south towards Albany. There are no wyes and the area is fully developed. The curves are 10 MPH curves on either end. In other words, it is exactly the OPPOSITE configuration as is needed - and there's no room to change it.
Hypothetically, one could build a connection from the UP main to the OE main in the manner you're talking about between Salem Industrial Way (the new overpass) and Hyacinth, or build it right alongside I-5 as the freeway passes over the SP main and extend the new track to where Ridge Drive dead-ends, just south of the Salem Parkway interchange. But you're talking money...
Personally: if commuter rail is (1) going to extend to Salem (which is a good idea)!, and (2) tie into WES - a much, MUCH better solution is to stay on the UP to Hubbard (thus serving Brooks, Gervais, Woodburn, Hubbard) - then split into two routes - one continuing on the UP to Canby, Oregon City, Clackamas, Milwaukie and Union Station; and the second route following the Wilsonville-Hubbard cutoff (a.k.a. Highway 551) up to I-5, then about one mile of new track including a viaduct over I-5 to tie into the OE just south of the Willamette River bridge. The one - and only - drawback is having to deal with the UP, but I do not think this is the fatal flaw that so many people make it out to be...whereas the OE has lots of flaws (in particular it doesn't serve Woodburn while the UP runs right through downtown Woodburn).
UH60L wrote:Whatever they decide, it's nice to see them talking about using the tracks for a change instead of tearing them out. It's a shame they got rid of the geere line, could have been used for commuter service in the future.
The Geer Line doesn't really serve anything. It could have MAYBE served as a "trolley" line akin to the Willamette Shores Trolley or the Astoria Trolley, but it also ran through a seedy neighborhood and run through the State Pen.
Since you mention an eastside line, running commuter rail through Woodburn on the UP would allow a DMU type service on the old West Stayton Branch (now the Willamette Valley Railroad) serving Mount Angel (think Oktoberfest) and Silverton - just over 10 miles. Another possibility would be the Mollala Branch out of Canby (now the Oregon Pacific Railroad). And if we really want to think far-out, what about restoring the Dallas Branch from Salem - which was abandoned in the late 1970s/early 1980s - and also service from Gerlinger to Independence?
The problem is: Most of these communities are about 10 or 15,000 people. There just isn't the ridership to justify the cost of commuter rail - remember, WES cost $160 million for 15 miles of track, and it serves a population of about 175,000 folks between the four cities it serves. In the case of the OE - the entire railroad would have to be rebuilt from the subroadbed up, a problem that doesn't exist on the UP (it is already suitable for 79 MPH passenger operations). The branches have suffered from decades of deferred maintenance and barely support trains running at 20 MPH. The Dallas Branch is long gone, and on top of that the City of Salem spent several million dollars converting the old railroad bridge into a pedestrian bridge.
Yamhill County tried their own commuter study - the third one - and it came to the exact same conclusion: too expensive, not sufficient ridership. The cost estimates to rehab the track were flawed in the reports and were way too low (WES was originally sold as an $80 million project, the final cost was 200% over estimate). And Yamhill County's study even stated that for the project to be even remotely feasible that it would only serve Newberg - the second largest city in the county, and NOT McMinnville!
The only reason to consider the OE is that ODOT owns the right-of-way (to a point north of, but not within, Keizer). But exactly whose convenience are we providing transportation for - for ODOT, or for the people who use it? Is it convenient for Woodburn residents to pay for a service and have to travel into the farmland outside of the town to use it? Is it convenient for Salem residents to have two different railroad stations - one for WES and one for Amtrak?