New Caledonia Sleepers, British Rail MK5

[David Benton]

Over on the Amtrak forum , The comparison with the new CAF built sleepers was brought up . The question there was wether CAF designed the car(carriage), or wether they built them to a design , provided by the customer. We did not really resolve that . It seems they have become designated , the British Rail MK5 carriage. I'm not sure if this is an official designation , particularly as British Rail as such no longer exists.

"They are a British Rail MARK 5 design apparently.
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/netwo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... er-coaches
Edit , It seems the CAF carriages ARE the British Rail MK5, therefore may be a CAF Design . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Mark_5_(CAF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)"

What really interest me about these cars is the "corrugated " Aluminium wall panels. These would be very strong, and light. I'm wondering if they represent the entire wall panel (external skin , corrugated web , internal wall . I suspect there is a plastic interior skin added, to allow with insulation , wiring etc. But I have seen Caravan walls , where the wall is all one sheet , external skin , insulation, and internal wall complete with wood grain printed on it. Most caravans are now built with these kind of walls.
https://www.globalrailnews.com/wp-conte ... 429728.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Finally , USRailFan comments they may be similar to the MK4 based Nightstar car.
Amtrak Thread :viewtopic.php?f=46&t=152679
Please make comments on the British aspects here , Comments in the Amtrak Forum should be to do with the Viewliner car , or comparisons to it.

[george matthews]

There are new carriages on the Scottish sleepers. I thought about taking a trip last summer but never got round to it. The sleeper services are much diminished nowadays, partly because Motorways have made road trips easier, and of course air travel is commoner. In the 1960s I once made a return trip by air - I lived quite close to Heathrow - but usually went by train. Very occasionally I used the sleeper service from Edinburgh - once to attend a job interview in London.

I think probably the new trains will attract passengers. But several other former sleeper services have been abandoned. For example, there are no longer sleeper connections to the Irish ferries at Stranraer or Holyhead. Only the sleeper to Plymouth and Penzance survives. I think the southwestern trains still use the former BR carriages. In the 1970s I once travelled on that train from Penzance to Paddington.

[george matthews]

I think the southwestern trains

They are run by the Great Western franchise. I didn't mean to imply they had anything to do with South West Trains franchise. But they do run to the south west of the country.

[talltim]

Wikipedia uses 'British Rail' just to denote trains operating in Britain and actually has nothing to do with British Rail the company. AFAIK the Mk5s are a purely CAF design, I think first for the Caledonian Sleeper (Not Caledonia) and then having designed the basis it gave them the opportunity to offer loco hauled day coaches for Transpennine Express. Previously CAF has built coaches for use in Ireland so had a starting point for designing for the restricted UK loading gauge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_4_(Iarnr%C3%B3d_%C3%89ireann" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
The GWR run sleeper service still uses 1980s BR built Mk3 sleepers and seem to have no current plans to replace them, they may get the best of the retired Caledonian sleepers to allow them to replace the worst of theirs.
I'm sure they will have extra internal panelling, don't think bare metal walls would give the right ambience! I'm also pretty sure they have little in common with the Nightstar sleepers, beyond being sleepers for UK loading gauge. There is 20 years worth of coach evolution and the Nightstars are steel whereas these are aluminium.

[David Benton]

Thanks Tim . Pretty much as I thought confirmed.
I didn't mean bare aluminium panels for the inside , you can get the ACP sheets with some quite fancy finishes for the interiors , including wood grain. But yes , more than likely there is a plastic or fibreglass type interoir panel .

[Jeff Smith]

According to the Financial Times, lots of issues. Going to do some cross-posting: https://www.ft.com/content/6c798f44-8de ... 2f641eca37

Cancellations, evacuations in the middle of the night, delays and faulty toilets: the grand relaunch in April of the Caledonian Sleeper train service between London and Scotland has proved a public-relations nightmare.
...

[STrRedWolf]

Unfortunately, it requires a subscription. Google News...

https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2019/06 ... aults.html

THE new Mk5 Caledonian Sleeper coaches have continued to be dogged by problems.

It is has emerged that it was wheel flats caused by unexplained brake applications which brought the northbound Lowland sleeper to a halt at Stafford early yesterday. Last night’s service was cancelled as a result, and CAF engineers are now investigating what went wrong....

The continuing problems have also included two other cancelled services and more late running.

https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2019/06 ... layed.html

THE launch of new Caledonian Sleeper services to the Highlands has been delayed again, as rolling stock problems continue.

Transport Scotland is now preparing to levy a fine on Caledonian Sleeper for breaching its franchise contract....

(Per Transport Scotland:) ‘While the Caledonian Sleeper team are working to correct train faults, the manufacturer CAF’s inability to supply sufficient suitable trains leaves no other option than for service entry to be postponed. The Highlander service will continue to run with existing trains until this this is resolved.’

[USRailFan]

Same maker as the Viewliners...

[David Benton]

With a genrally good reputation . I would say these are just teething problems they will sort fairly quickly.The Viewliner saga is a whole different story , and not typical of CAF's overseas ventures.

[David Benton]

Gosh , it appears Scottish newspapers are all subscription required. Couldn't get into any easily to read the public side of the story

[RRspatch]

Gosh , it appears Scottish newspapers are all subscription required. Couldn't get into any easily to read the public side of the story