90 mph running for steam trains in UK

[johnthefireman]

An article in the November 2016 issue of The Railway Magazine (p 94) states that A1 Pacific Tornado will be paired with a rake of modern Mk 3 coaches and registered for 90 mph running over the UK mainline network. An A4 recently hit around 94 mph on test runs.

The rake of coaches will include a support coach and a generator car. It will be more crash-worthy than the old Mk 1s that currently make up most steam excursions, and will have central locking, air conditioning, controlled emission toilets, at-seat power points, restricted mobility facilities, maybe even wifi. It will also incorporate increased water capacity which will be through-piped to the locomotive's tender, thus increasing the range of the loco between stops. With the higher speed and increased range, it will be easier to find paths on Britain's crowded network.

Although the coaches are air-conditioned, the organisers have promised that they will modify them to allow windows to be opened so that the punters can hear the exhaust beat of the loco.

[johnthefireman]

And this is what a steam locomotive at 90 mph looks like!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me1OfEEKk3I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[philipmartin]

Good post, John. A couple of wacky suggestions: put track pans or water troughs back in to supplement the water supply; and have the windows open so wackos like me can have our heads out the whole trip, and end up with black faces.
The "High speed train sign" at Taplow isn't surprising for me. In working two different stations, I have had people who were on the platform when high speed trains went by, complain to me about not being warned in advance.
Link to Wiki article "Tornado."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Pepp ... 63_Tornado" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Link to Wiki article "A4." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_A4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Link to Wiki article N&NW Lady of the lake class. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNWR_La ... Lake_Class" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
These engines used water scoops from 1862.

[george matthews]

All the water troughs were removed from the track years ago when steam was phased out. They won't come back.

[philipmartin]

All the water troughs were removed from the track years ago when steam was phased out. They won't come back.

Not altogether surprising. What does surprise me is that they were used by British Rail diesels in the 1950s. Here's a paragraph from Wiki: "Use by diesel locomotives[edit]
Diesel locomotives were introduced in the United Kingdom by British Railways in the 1950s, working alongside steam traction until 1968. Passenger vehicles were heated by steam from the locomotive boiler at that time, and the early diesel locomotives were provided with auxiliary boilers to provide the steam. Locomotives intended for long non-stop runs (such as the Class 40 and Class 55) were fitted with water scoops to allow them to replenish the steam generator's water supply from troughs/pans. The withdrawal of steam traction and the introduction of rolling stock with electric rather than steam heating removed the need for such equipment on later types and scoop-equipped locomotives had their scoops removed."

Off topic: Happy Christmas to all!

[george matthews]

All the water troughs were removed from the track years ago when steam was phased out. They won't come back.

Not altogether surprising. What does surprise me is that they were used by British Rail diesels in the 1950s. Here's a paragraph from Wiki: "Use by diesel locomotives[edit]
Diesel locomotives were introduced in the United Kingdom by British Railways in the 1950s, working alongside steam traction until 1968. Passenger vehicles were heated by steam from the locomotive boiler at that time, and the early diesel locomotives were provided with auxiliary boilers to provide the steam. Locomotives intended for long non-stop runs (such as the Class 40 and Class 55) were fitted with water scoops to allow them to replenish the steam generator's water supply from troughs/pans. The withdrawal of steam traction and the introduction of rolling stock with electric rather than steam heating removed the need for such equipment on later types and scoop-equipped locomotives had their scoops removed."

Off topic: Happy Christmas to all!

Steam heat was a legacy technology and used only in Mark 1 carriages, and earlier versions. At a time when all passenger carriages were legacy from earlier times - pre BR - steam had to be provided in the diesel locos. But with the coming of Mark 2 carriages and later all carriages were heated by electricity and the need for steam generators on diesel locos passed.

There was a reason why steam was phased out as quickly as possible after the second world war - and they would have gone in the 1940s if it hadn't been for the war - it was that steam is not only polluting to everyone living near the line and its terminals, it is also more expensive and needs a huge work force to do nothing other than fill trains with coal and clear up the mess they produce. Let's have no more nostalgia for this polluting technology.

[philipmartin]

North American passenger diesels frequently carried steam generators too. Barco and Elesco are two manufacturers whose names come to mind. Here are advertisements by both companies for their steam locomotive apparatus in a 1931 Railway Age magazine.

https://books.google.com/books?id=yJklA ... kQ6AEIDzAA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[philipmartin]

Elesco made feedwater heaters among other things. This may be one of theirs in this photo of the Canadian Pacific Hudson 2816. It is the large cylindrical object in front of the smoke stack/chimney. The Elesco advertisement in the 1931 Railway Age features a photo of the CP 2803. The 2816 is preserved, being acquired by Steamtown, and later by the CP again, which spent $2,000,000 rebuilding it. The Wiki article says "During restoration, the locomotive was converted to burn oil and equipped with modern amenities such as a radio and a diesel control unit." I wonder what a "diesel control unit" is. Can it enable the steamer to mu with diesel helpers? Here's a link to the Wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Pacific_2816" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's the SteamLocomotive.com article on locomotive feedwater heaters, for anybody who might be interested. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/applianc ... eaters.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In the early 1950s I was in high school and used to cross the river to New Jersey, to see and photograph the railroads there. One of them was the Jersey Central, (the CNJ,) which had Elesco feedwater heaters on its Pacifics. The ones pictured below have the old logo on the tender, and have a "Blue Comet" headboard for the Jersey City - Atlantic City train.
The Barco add shows one of their passenger car steam heat connectors.

[johnthefireman]

South African passenger trains also used steam-heating until very recently. A special steam-heating car would be coupled immediately behind the diesel or electric locomotive to provide steam to the coaches. I'll leave Philip to locate a picture on the internet! I've just ordered an HO model one, in fact, for my model railway.

[philipmartin]

John - I did a little Googling, but didn't find one. Perhaps when you get your model, you can photograph it and post it.
What I did find was information about Braamfontein, "Soul of A Railway" by Les Pivnic, which is amazing. What caught my notice first was the steam tractors, which I know you are interested in, then the automobiles on double deck flatcars and a double deck passenger car, all circa 1927-28. South Africa pioneered them. I was going to post the photos here, but the copyright scared me, so here's a link. https://sites.google.com/site/soulorail ... aamfontein" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'll post it on FOTR too, in miscellaneous.

[philipmartin]

Reading the extremely interesting "Soul of A Railway" article posted above, I came across the name Vapour-Clarkson, (their spelling.) Googling the name leads to "Steam generator (railroad.)" Here's an imperfect link, it leaves off the ")" .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_generator_(railroad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

[philipmartin]

SAR class 16E Pacifics had round-top fireboxes that look like Wooten fireboxes in North America.
Top photo SAR 16E 854.
Bottom photo CNJ camelback. Like all camelbacks, it has a Wooten firebox. Note the arch bar trucks on the tender.

YouTube of 16Es working. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOgn3pDj9eA&sn=em" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[johnthefireman]

Thanks, Philip.

Model steam heating cars - see p 17 of the Scalecraft catalogue at https://issuu.com/hillcraft/docs/scalec ... 2014_06_01" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I met the owner during my last trip to Cape Town and had a guided tour of his workshop. I've bought and ordered a fair bit of stuff from him.

Vapour - the normal way of spelling it outside north America - on your side of the pond you spell many similar words (colour, favour, etc) without the u.

Les Pivnic - a stalwart of the South African heritage rail community, a mine of historic information following a long and distinguished career in the railway industry, and a nice boke.

Feedwater heaters - thanks for the article on these. What I've often wondered is whether the design of the injector itself has to be modified to accept heated feedwater. On all of the locomotives I'm familiar with, the injectors can fail if they get too hot. The remedy is to turn the steam off and allow feedwater to flow through them for a few seconds to cool them down a little, and then switch the steam on again. I wonder how that works when the feedwater itself is heated?

[philipmartin]

Thank you for such a good response, John. UnfortunatEly, I know next to nothing about the mechanics of locomotives, except that I used to see the Elesco feedwater heaters on the front of Jersey Central Pacifics when I was a teen ager, and I know what an injector does.
The Google article about Les Pivnic and Charlie Lewis' "Soul of A Railway" book project is a gold mine.