Luton & Cambridge Busways deemed successful?

[Semaphore Sam]

There was much controversy during the planning and building of the Luton-Dunstable Busway; some thought it should have been re-built as a light railway. Around the same time the Cambridge Busway was built. Are either, and/or both, considered now as successful; were the initial cost overruns justified by the convenience to the populace, and the reduction in traffic on local roads? Are the ridership numbers seen as justifying the use of busses and busway, as opposed to light rail? Are more busways now under consideration in the UK? Curious Sam

[philipmartin]

I can't answer your question, Sam, but I can post some Wiki articles about busways, something I have never heard of before.
Position light Philip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luton_to_Dunstable_Busway" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Photo below: A bus on the O-Bahn Busway route in Adelaide, Australia. If you were't expecting a Teutonic name like "O-Bahn" in Australia, it's because this particular system was imported from Germany.

[george matthews]

There was much controversy during the planning and building of the Luton-Dunstable Busway; some thought it should have been re-built as a light railway. Around the same time the Cambridge Busway was built. Are either, and/or both, considered now as successful; were the initial cost overruns justified by the convenience to the populace, and the reduction in traffic on local roads? Are the ridership numbers seen as justifying the use of busses and busway, as opposed to light rail? Are more busways now under consideration in the UK? Curious Sam

I don't think any more are planned. I think they were thought to be cheaper to build than a light rail system. The main advantage would be that the buses can use ordinary roads when they get to town. As far as I am concerned the main disadvantage is that they burn oil and increase the world's CO2 atmospheric content. Also I think they have the same disadvantage for ordinary riders as ordinary buses - oil products get into the passenger area and cause low level sickness.

[Semaphore Sam]

Speaking to these points, I remember as a child in the 1950's, traveling by both trams and buses with overhead connections to electrical power in major cities like New York and Providence, RI. Might modern electrical buses/trams mitigate the disadvantages mentioned by Mr. Matthews above? Busways with electricity, instead of diesel? Or, would electrically powered light rail be better? Sam

[george matthews]

I think you are proposing Trolleybuses. When I was at Primary School in the 1940s there was a trolleybus route that went past my house and I used to use it to go to school - I paid one penny a ride. Trolleybuses replaced trams in many parts of the London area in the 1930s. The advantage was that they didn't smell, were very quiet and didn't need imported oil. (I can remember them passing the house very quietly when I was in bed) The disadvantage was that they were fixed on their route - oil powered buses can be easily diverted when necessary. It's possible that modern batteries could power a vehicle without needing the overhead wires. Officials who didn't value the lack of pollution tended to look at the Overhead as an expense they wished to eliminate.

All the Trolleybuses in Britain were phased out in the 1960s. I don't think there are any left now in Britain. I remember seeing one in Belgium in the 1960s. There used to be systems in many British cities. I think there had been a policy of replacing trams in the 1930s - suspended during the war.

I remember seeing them in San Francisco in the 1960s and also in Toronto.

[ExCon90]

In Germany, there have recently been introduced (I think in Mannheim) battery-powered electric buses which can be quickly charged at each end of the line within the normal layover time. I think I read it in Tramway and Urban Transit; it may not have been in operation long enough to be evaluated, but if successful it would do away with both the overhead and the lack of route flexibility (and no dewirements).

[george matthews]

How quickly can they be recharged, and how often do they need it? Yes, they might be the answer to emission free buses, and replace expensive tracks for trams.

[johnthefireman]

Like George, I remember the trolleys when I was growing up in London. Pity they were scrapped.

There are still trolleys in quite a few European cities. Geneva definitely has them and I seem to remember seeing them in some German cities. I've seen the north American ones which George mentions in San Fransisco and Toronto - both are still operating as far as I know.

Electrically powered buses are becoming more and more feasible, just as electric cars are, due mainly, I think, to improvements in battery technology. I was reading the other day about a new bus route somewhere which will be operated entirely by electric buses, but I can't for the life of me remember where.

But I don't like guided busways. I'd prefer to see light rail (which includes trams) and/or trolleybuses.

[george matthews]

Like George, I remember the trolleys when I was growing up in London. Pity they were scrapped.

There are still trolleys in quite a few European cities. Geneva definitely has them and I seem to remember seeing them in some German cities. I've seen the north American ones which George mentions in San Fransisco and Toronto - both are still operating as far as I know.

Electrically powered buses are becoming more and more feasible, just as electric cars are, due mainly, I think, to improvements in battery technology. I was reading the other day about a new bus route somewhere which will be operated entirely by electric buses, but I can't for the life of me remember where.

But I don't like guided busways. I'd prefer to see light rail (which includes trams) and/or trolleybuses.

It looks to me that the guided busways must be as expensive to build as it would be for a tram track. So, I don't think there is an improvement there. The only real advantage would be the ability of the buses to operate in ordinary streets when they get off the guideway. If (when) emissions are taken seriously design must concentrate on providing electricity to the vehicle. New conditions would arise in cities when it becomes a crime to emit CO2 (yes, I am sure we shall need that in the near future). I would not be surprised if all transport will be required to be free of emissions. Trump apparently believes there is no problem with the levels of CO2, thereby proving yet again that he is an ignorant fool.

[Semaphore Sam]

Big problem with busways seems to be the vulnerability of the bus road to deformation; rail can be more efficient, less friction, and less prone to break-up. The Cambridge busway has major legal battles between community and contractors, about who is responsible to pay for the break-up of the road structure, after only 4-5 years. Sam

[george matthews]

Big problem with busways seems to be the vulnerability of the bus road to deformation; rail can be more efficient, less friction, and less prone to break-up. The Cambridge busway has major legal battles between community and contractors, about who is responsible to pay for the break-up of the road structure, after only 4-5 years. Sam

I think they were an experiment, advocated by enthusiasts who hated trams.

The actual practice has shown that their enthusiasm was unjustified.

[David Benton]

I think the Adelaide, Australia busway was built in thick solid concrete. Hard to see how it was cheaper to build than light rail , but it does have the advantage the buses can leave the busway and travel other routes.
The Auckland north shore busway (NZ) has been a success, despite the local govt not having the balls to take a lane or 2 off the cars over the harbour bridge , and into the city. At the moment the buses have to leave the busway, merge into the traffic and crawl over the bridge. To be fair that would probably be political suicide in the short term .
Its a shame nobody has come up with a feasible way of a bus hi railing onto a light rail line , either singularly , or joined up as a train.
That would be the ultimate way to link less populated areas with the city centres.