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  • Italian diesel locomotives

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Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of Canada and the United States.

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 #1401259  by Benny
 
As usual, this topic only wants to give a survey of the matter, if you will have questions or specific requests ask and, within my limits, I will try to answer. Remember that italian dimentions are far smaller against the US standards.

Italy has been the cradle of railcars but main line diesel locomotives came relatively late because of various factors, the main one being how to transmit between the engine and the wheels a power far bigger than what needed for a small shunter or a light railcar. Other factors that retarded diesel traction have been the expected wiring of the last main lines, the low cost of coal against imported oil fuels and lightweight tracks and bridges in nearly all the secondary lines destined to remain without wires.
In the 50s, with the progress of technologies, became evident that the power transmission modes were only two: hydraulic, of north-european origin, and electric, developed mainly in the USA.
Having no experience in the field, FS asked to the main Italian builders for locomotives with a couple of two axle trucks, a power similar to the best steam locomotives and a light axle weight, to be declined with the two kinds of transmission making possible a comparison between them.
Fiat proposed D 341, a diesel-electric loco with a Fiat or Breda low speed prime mover of approximately 1000 kW and electric transmission derived from GE models, instead Ansaldo proposed D 342, a diesel-hydraulic moved by two Maybach high speed engines of 510 kW connected with Mekydro hydro-mechanical gearboxes of German-swedish origin.
The two models of locomotive were extensively tested in regular service but finally FS chose the electric transmission, officially because it is simpler than hydraulic one but really because of the lobbying of Fiat and CGE, the Italian filiation of GE.
After completion of the first D 341 order a second series of the project, with a different aesthetic and some different components, was passed to the industries.
To give work to Ansaldo a small batch of three more D 342, with improved power, was ordered too.

After the initial services, the first series D 341 became a familiar sight of southern Italy where they passed the operating life between local and freight trains and finished their services in the 80s.
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First series D 341.1007 waiting for the next service in Sibari, on the Ionic line, in the 80s.

The second series gone partly to the South but also worked from Rome and in Emilia Romagna and Veneto regions. The last ones operated from Taranto until the beginning of the 90s.
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Second series D 341.1024 at the head of a local service in Brunico (Pusteria valley), in the 70s.

D 342 instead, after initial services in Veneto and Sardinia regions, were assigned to Siena depot from where they were used on the non electrified lines of Tuscany with summer trips until Rimini through the Faentina line and Ravenna until the 80s when the class has been withdrawn. One unit has been preserved as historic item.
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D342.4005 entering in Florence Santa Maria Novella station to be hooked to its train in the 80s.
The three images are by W. Hardmeier courtesy of Photorail, probably the best site for italian railway photography.



Ciao :wink:
Last edited by Benny on Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1401260  by Benny
 
Some more images.
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A local train headed by first series D 341.1008 waiting for a crossing in the 80s. Note the heating wagon at the back of the loco. Photo by W. Hardmeier.
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Second series D341.1024 tailing a train because of the need of dividing the rake in one of the next stations along the Ionic line in 1974. Photo by B. Studer.
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D 342.4006 waiting departure time at Florence main station in 1972. Photo by B. Studer.

The three images courtesy of Photorail

Ciao :wink:
 #1401350  by philipmartin
 
Thank you, Benny, for the information on Italian diesel locomotives. I appreciate it. Here's a link to Photorail. http://www.photorail.com/ENGintro.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.photorail.com/oldies/WHardme ... 0copia.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've been enjoying looking at photos there. Heres a link to one of them, a two unit emu, by Werer Hardmeier.
and a Railion diesel puling a freight near a beautiful Italian lake, by Stefano Paolini.
http://www.photorail.com/phr3-gli%20upd ... dcopia.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 #1401492  by philipmartin
 
philipmartin wrote: and a Railion diesel puling a freight near a beautiful Italian lake, by Stefano Paolini.
http://www.photorail.com/phr3-gli%20upd ... dcopia.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's a link to Wiki about Railion which is part of an international conglomeration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Schenker_Rail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Below is model of the Vossloh loco in the photo and information on it from the Marklin catalogue.

"Prototype: Heavy Diesel Locomotive Vossloh G2000 BB with symetrical cab Railion Italia Srl Transport Services Red paint scheme. Locomotive operation number G 2000-03 SF."

It is a diesel-hydraulic. Here's a Wiki article on it and photos of some. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vossloh_G_2000_BB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 #1401690  by Benny
 
The steam locomotives are from the Sardinian narrow gauge systems.
The stainless steel railcar and its sisters were built in the 30s for the Casalecchio-Vignola line and, when this one became freight only, were sold to La Ferroviaria Italiana in Arezzo. The class was retired at the end of the 70s.
By now I am very busy but when I will finish with the diesels we can open another topic about Italian private railways.

Ciao
 #1401698  by philipmartin
 
"when I will finish with the diesels we can open another topic about Italian private railways."

Ciao[/quote]
That sounds great, Benny. Thank you for sharing you knowledge with us.
Photo: Locomotiva elettrica L.901 della Ferrovia Casalecchio–Vignola, in sosta a Vignola
 #1401753  by JayBee
 
The three G2000-2 built for SBB (Swiss class Am840) have been sold to Swiss track maintenance company Scheuchzer, and are now only seen in Switzerland.
 #1402550  by Benny
 
After the first experiences with locomotives proposed by the building firms, FS projected a new, unified, family of main line diesel locos so, in the second half of the 60s, born D 343 and D 443.
The two classes are based on the same body, chassis, trucks and main generator, the sole technical difference being the prime mover. In D 343, because of the smaller aggregate, there is a never used luggage room.
The main innovations from the previous series were the fuel tank put inside the frame, giving better stability because of the low center of gravity, and, more important, the single motor trucks derived from the French technology that allowed better circulation because of the short wheelbase and the lower truck weight.
A new body design was studied but frankly this time the famous "Italian style" failed: in an attempt to give more space to the driving cabs the roof line is longer than the chassis so the front ends are badly curved and looking the locomotive from the side you have the feeling of a human stomach. More, the metallic molding down of the front glasses gives a Mongoloid resemblance and one of the best industrial designers one time told: "it seems the stupid brother of Mao Tze Tung". Last but not least surely it's possible to have a better colours combination than this fecal one.
The two classes were equipped with Fiat or Breda prime movers but in D 343 Fiat engines demonstrated to be very sensitive; instead in D 443 were the Breda engines to be problematic.
Other problems came from the trucks, in which some times, especially during the first age, the two axles were turning at different speeds.
The new locos were scattered in nearly all the depots connected with non electrified lines and worked all kinds of trains. Some D 343s were re-engined and others, and some D 443, were equipped with an in-cab signal repetition device; in the two cases the interested D 343s lost the luggage room.
In the second half of the 90s FS started to take off the Fiat engined D 343s and someones were sold to Ferrovie Nord (1unit), Ferrovia Adriatico-Sangritana (2 units) and Ferrovie del Sud Est (3 or 4). At the same time started dumping of D 443s in worst state, also because of the lowering of the freight traffic.
In the new century the two classes were slowly taken out of service, because of strong reduction of loco hauled passenger services, the disappearing of freight service in almost all the secondary lines and the rationalization of the fleet.
In 2002 D 343.2016 has been rebuilt with new body, engine and main generator as a prototype for a supposed second life of the class. In 2008 two more units were transformed as the new class D 449, an improved version of the previous one, but the vertical fall in freight traffic wrote the word stop on the idea and the prototypes were dumped.
In general the two classes were not bad machines, and easy to drive, but were a little underpowered, also because various secondary lines are in mountaneous territories, so frequently it was needed double heading with the consequent doubling of drivers being not possible the remote control of the second unit.

Some units of the two classes are preserved as historic locomotives.

A freight train pulled by a D 343 crosses a lone sister in Molteno, on the central Brianza line, in 1998. Photo by S. Paolini
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A non identified D 443 being turned on the Palermo depot turntable surrounded by ALn 772 railcars in 1976. Photo by B. Studer
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D 343.2025 hooked to the emergency train of Cremona depot in 1998. Photo by S. Paolini
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The three images courtesy of Photorail.

Ciao :wink:
 #1402553  by Benny
 
Some more images.

A freight train headed by D 443.2013 caught near Abbasanta, on the dorsal Sardinia line.
4432013-040706coabbasanta.jpg
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Another freight service on the same line, this time near Bonorva. Now freights have completely disappeared from Sardinia.
dic2004-4432006-300797cobonorva.jpg
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Rebuilt D 343.2016 exposed at Milano Smistamento depot during an Open Day.
3432016-160405dlmilanosmisto.jpg
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The three shots are by S. Paolini courtesy of Photorail

Ciao :wink:
 #1402555  by philipmartin
 
Such informative posts! Thank you, Benny.
That dwarf signal in Cremona station looks very much like a Pennsylvania Railroad position light signal. Below is a photo of a PRR "pot" signal, displaying "stop," as I suppose the signal in Cremona is. One difference is that the Cremona signal is on the left side of the track. In North America most railroads run right handed with signals on the right hand side of the track..
 #1402727  by Benny
 
philipmartin wrote:Such informative posts! Thank you, Benny.
That dwarf signal in Cremona station looks very much like a Pennsylvania Railroad position light signal. Below is a photo of a PRR "pot" signal, displaying "stop," as I suppose the signal in Cremona is. One difference is that the Cremona signal is on the left side of the track. In North America most railroads run right handed with signals on the right hand side of the track..
The so-called "low signals" or "marmots" are used to control movements inside a station or a yard. In Italy trains run left hand and consequently signals are on the left.
The Pennsylvania one has one light more than the italians.

Ciao :wink:
 #1402729  by Benny
 
NorthWest wrote:Strange that the units weren't set up to MU, though I guess the Italians never really got interested in a system.
Thanks!
Until few years ago unions have been strongly against the multiple control in locomotives because of the supposed loss of jobs. The only class of diesels born with multiple control has been D 445 (wait for them) but it has never been used in regular service.

Ciao :wink: