Anarchy in Daveyton, S.A.

[philipmartin]

http://www.railwaysafrica.com/news/metr ... -396119117" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above from Railways Africa. We mentioned carriages being set alight in a previous thread.

[philipmartin]

From Railways Africa, April 2008: train no show; commuters at Daveyton say "no train? we don't need this station," and set the station on fire. The material in quotes is from my imagination, but it fits the story.
http://www.railwaysafrica.com/news/dave ... r5-million" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

[johnthefireman]

commuters at Daveyton say "no train? we don't need this station," and set the station on fire. The material in quotes is from my imagination, but it fits the story.

I think it's rather more complex than that rather flip comment. After the best part of 400 years in which the majority population had no sense of ownership of public property, which all belonged to the white minority, and after a liberation struggle in which public (ie white-controlled) property was a legitimate target of the frustration of the oppressed majority, I think it will take more than one generation before a sense of public ownership is instilled in people. The railways in particular were a white- and indeed Afrikaans-dominated industry, and contributed significantly to the apartheid policy of migrant labour, so it's no great surprise that there is no love lost between the people and the railways.

[philipmartin]

commuters at Daveyton say "no train? we don't need this station," and set the station on fire. The material in quotes is from my imagination, but it fits the story.

I think it's rather more complex than that rather flip comment. After the best part of 400 years in which the majority population had no sense of ownership of public property, which all belonged to the white minority, and after a liberation struggle in which public (ie white-controlled) property was a legitimate target of the frustration of the oppressed majority, I think it will take more than one generation before a sense of public ownership is instilled in people. The railways in particular were a white- and indeed Afrikaans-dominated industry, and contributed significantly to the apartheid policy of migrant labour, so it's no great surprise that there is no love lost between the people and the railways.

Flip comment #2. Civilized people don't burn down the station because the train is late.

[johnthefireman]

I don't think you understood what I wrote. It is not about the train being late.

[philipmartin]

I don't think you understood what I wrote. It is not about the train being late.

Railwaya Africa said "Commuters waiting at Daveyton, angered by the delay, set fire to the station,"
You say they set fire to the station for various psycological reasons, which I don't buy; and which don't justify arson.

[johnthefireman]

I actually said, "it's rather more complex than that rather flip comment", and I didn't mention "various psychological reasons", although I did mention the historical background, which is different, for example, from that of people who have experienced hundreds of years of freedom and democracy rather than hundreds of years of discrimination and oppression. To use your own term, "civilised people" don't impose minority rule, oppression, violence, discrimination, exploitation, etc on the majority of the people, culminating in formal apartheid, and when an uncivilised minority do so, the consequences are unpredictable to say the least. To then accuse the victims of that sort of uncivilised behaviour of themselves being uncivilised seems a trifle unfair.

But we stray off topic. I have made my point, for those who are interested in taking a broader view of this topic.

[philipmartin]

Flippant comment #3- John- your attempts to justify the anarchy have more to do with ideology than reality. It's comical.

[johnthefireman]

As I say, I have made my point and don't wish to continue off-topic. If you think it is comical, I would suggest that you are taking a very narrow view and that you know little of the context. Let the reader judge for her/himself.

[george matthews]

commuters at Daveyton say "no train? we don't need this station," and set the station on fire. The material in quotes is from my imagination, but it fits the story.

I think it's rather more complex than that rather flip comment. After the best part of 400 years in which the majority population had no sense of ownership of public property, which all belonged to the white minority, and after a liberation struggle in which public (ie white-controlled) property was a legitimate target of the frustration of the oppressed majority, I think it will take more than one generation before a sense of public ownership is instilled in people. The railways in particular were a white- and indeed Afrikaans-dominated industry, and contributed significantly to the apartheid policy of migrant labour, so it's no great surprise that there is no love lost between the people and the railways.

Flip comment #2. Civilized people don't burn down the station because the train is late.

You constantly show that you have not the smallest understanding of the situations in Africa. Pay more attention to your own problems - the rise of a loud Neo-Nazi candidate for one of your major parties.

[philipmartin]

Pay more attention to your own problems - the rise of a loud Neo-Nazi candidate for one of your major parties.

Ha ha ha ha! .

Sorry to be rude, George. That was my first reaction to your post. I hope that we are all friends here.

[David Benton]

Back to railroads , gentlemen.
I'll let this lot stay, unless someone complains. Anyone continues the politics , the whole thread will be deleted.

[philipmartin]

Here's an article, "Prasa warns against torching of trains. http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/ ... ns-1989529" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A similar story from the African News Agency. http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/ ... es-1989233" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Third article: Protesters threaten to burn Gautrains. From the article: “It would be useless for us to burn our own property, but that Gautrain is not for us, it's for the rich people. It is for the bourgeois,” Mokoena said to cheers of approval from the crowd."
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/ ... ns-1485773" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Photo: Pretoria station.

[philipmartin]

It's 2017 and the arson in Capetown contnues. From "Railways Africa" http://www.railwaysafrica.com/news/cape ... re-torched" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;