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All about the Arcade & Attica Railroad

Moderator: Benjamin Maggi

 #616845  by Benjamin Maggi
 
Congratulations to the railroad! I saw on their website that all of their holiday express trains have been sold out. That is great. Even if it is only the two coach consist, it means that the community is coming out. I don't know if they still put a Christmas tree and lights on the train, but they did a few years ago and it was really cool.

(Riding in the gondola on a New York afternoon in December is always "cool")
 #617875  by ctclark1
 
I know, OT and there's a topic about it already, but the green is growing on me, especially with the orange "accents" around the windows. :P

It'll be fun to see them go back to orange though too.

Ok, done with the off topic...
 #617975  by Benjamin Maggi
 
I think that the dark green looks classic and stylish, and the orange looks bold and "authentic" (for the A&A, at least), but I think green with orange trim looks strange. I bet that since windows take a lot of time to paint (90% of painting is in the preparation and trim) they just haven't gotten around to doing them up in green yet.
 #618073  by jgallaway81
 
You know, once painted, they could use orange on the stairs and railings... the orange trim would help create a "set" feeling between the cars and the engines.
 #618318  by Mountcastle
 
Oh, you're kidding.

Please tell me that they simply haven't gotten around to painting the windows yet. That looks abominable. Absolutely abominable. If anyone had his doubts concerning the aesthetic merits of an orange and black color scheme, he needed only imagine dark green thrown into the mix to satisfy himself that it could be much worse.

If they're going to get rid of the orange for a spell (or for ever), then they should simply eradicate it, outright: from the windows, from the grab rails, from the steam locomotive and tender. Letter the coaches above the windows in an attractive gold font and paint the railings and grab bars a glossy black. Likewise use an attractive gold font for the numbering and lettering of the locomotive and tender, embellishing the same with pin striping* in white and gold (whitewalled drivers and pilot wheels would be a nice touch, too).

Now, I'm a committed advocate of the railroad's traditional orange and black color scheme. I'm sad to see it go and I hope to see it return one day. In the meantime, however, the Arcade & Attica Supreme Command would not, I hope, decide to maintain a remnant of the orange for the sake of...maintaining a remnant of the orange. To do so would reflect a misplaced need to retain something they've resolved to get rid of (whether permanently or for the moment), interfering with the implementation of a successful aesthetic.

If they're going to dress the train up, they ought to dress it up correctly and not let it go out looking like the color-blind village idiot of scenic railroads. Let them not make the mistake of putting the train in a smart-looking tux, only to complete the outfit with a garish orange tie!

But perhaps they simply haven't gotten around to the windows yet. In that case, keep up the good work. It's beginning to look great! :wink:

*See here, for example:

http://www.essexsteamtrain.com/steam.html
Last edited by Mountcastle on Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #618348  by Otto Vondrak
 
Mountcastle wrote:then they should simply eradicate it, outright: from the windows, from the grab rails, from the steam locomotive and tender. Letter the coaches above the windows in an attractive gold font and paint the railings and grab bars a glossy black.
Per FRA rules, grab irons and other safety appliances must be painted a contrasting color (white, yelllow, orange would all be "contrasting" colors against the dark coach bodies). As far as painting the window frames, they should either be black or the same green as the coach body. Bright yellow or white roman lettering in the letterboard would be sharp-looking.

But then again, I don't pay the bills or sit on the board of directors, so it's all moot.

-otto-
 #618374  by Mountcastle
 
It isn't moot if any of them read this thread and are thereby converted from their sinful ways. :wink:

I think white lettering would be a tad uninteresting; better gold or yellow-gold. And if the grab irons must contrast, then yellow or white rather than orange.

Also, it might be an interesting idea to 'name' the coaches. The disproportionately wealthy spend money on all sorts of things to flaunt their wealth. Perhaps it might be an idea to contact a number of area multi-millionaires and ask if they wouldn't be interested in contributing X-thousand dollars to have a passenger car named after them, all proceeds going to the upkeep of this historic railroad and its historic equipment.

Packaged and presented properly, I wouldn't be surprised if the A&A were to find enough takers to make a very decent chunk of cash. Naming rights to the coaches might even be auctioned on Ebay.
 #618472  by Otto Vondrak
 
Mountcastle wrote:I think white lettering would be a tad uninteresting; better gold or yellow-gold. And if the grab irons must contrast, then yellow or white rather than orange.
Very rarely were modern cars lettered with actual gold- that's a Vanderbilt-and-Gould-era kind of thing. The color that is called "deluxe gold" is really a deep golden yellow. Many railroads also opted for white ("boring" as it is). Like I said, the decisions are up to those who pay the bills (or pony up money or are professional letterers who wish to donate their time). ;-)
 #618483  by Mountcastle
 
The color that is called "deluxe gold" is really a deep golden yellow.
I'm sure that's what I'm thinking of when I say 'gold'. That sort of yellow-gold that looks so sharp when painted against a glossy black tender or cab or dome.
Like I said, the decisions are up to those who pay the bills...
I realize who the decisions are up to. I'm just participating in an exchange and offering my perspective.

O, great Arcade & Attica 'Decider': if you're reading this, get rid of the orange windows and go with yellow-gold lettering! And bring back the pinwheel guy. The panhandler gives me the creeps.
 #618484  by jgallaway81
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:Per FRA rules, grab irons and other safety appliances must be painted a contrasting color (white, yelllow, orange would all be "contrasting" colors against the dark coach bodies)...
-otto-

Hence my original suggestion of using the orange on the grab irons.

As for green/orange being a bad combination, might I point out the BNSF locomotive schemes as well as the original GN passenger car schemes, both of which use that exact color combination.
 #618563  by Otto Vondrak
 
jgallaway81 wrote:As for green/orange being a bad combination, might I point out the BNSF locomotive schemes as well as the original GN passenger car schemes, both of which use that exact color combination.
That would be fine if this were the BNSF... or the Great Northern's Empire Builder... but it's not ;-) And they didn't use the colors applied the way they are accidentally applied to the ARA coaches currently. Hopefully the orange window frames get painted soon.
 #618567  by jgallaway81
 
I NEVER advocated or intended to imply that the orange around the windows should stay.

The ONLY orange I intended would be the contrasting colors required for the handrails.

Since orange is FRA acceptable, I figured it made sense to use it for that, as well as a link to the steam engine and the centercabs.
 #618749  by Mountcastle
 
I NEVER advocated or intended to imply that the orange around the windows should stay.

The ONLY orange I intended would be the contrasting colors required for the handrails.

Since orange is FRA acceptable, I figured it made sense to use it for that, as well as a link to the steam engine and the centercabs.
It makes sense and I grasp what you're saying. I'm simply of the mind that the orange grab irons would not look at all good vs. dark green.

To stress again, I'm square in the corner of the old orange and black scheme; it's what I've always known and it's the way it always ought to be, if you ask me. HOWEVER...since the A&A are going to reject, now, their 46 year old tradition in favour of a regentrification project of the coaches and combines by means of a new 'wardrobe' of Pullman green, then they should, first of all, do that much correctly. But why stop there?

Instead of ruining the look of the regentrified coaches by painting the grab irons orange in a misguided effort to match the trim of the locomotive and tender, it would be better if they went one step further and spruced-up the paint of the locomotive and tender, instead.

The orange lettering and trim of the locomotives made sense when the coaches were orange. In my humble opinion, 14 and 18 never looked so good as when they were glossy black with dark graphite smokeboxes and strutted about flashing their bright orange trim and whitewalls. But about 1995 or so, the joint chiefs of staff at the Orangegon deemed it meet to spoil 18's good looks with a silver smokebox (originally with black fasteners around the door!), a silver firebox, orange grab irons, and white lettering, making it look like a crazy quilt of sorts. The overall look of the engine became very incongruous and rather difficult on the eyes.

The repainting of the coaches--as I see things, anyway--presents a golden opportunity for the Arcade & Attica to likewise dandify the locomotive with a proper paint job, finally correcting the mistakes of the past. In my opinion, that means saying goodbye to the orange grab irons and trim that no longer make sense. It also means repainting that tender: the off-center 'ARCADE & ATTICA' has always baffled me. It makes no sense at all and just looks as if somebody made a mistake, to be honest. The font, likewise, is unworthy (and completely incongruous).

If the styling cues of the past are being discarded for something new, let it be for something better. It would be a delight to see the train dressed to the nines this time around.

As far as something on the coaches to match something on the diesels...absolutely unnecessary. For one thing, the diesels are seldom paired with the passenger train and when they are, it's understood that they represent substitute motive power. The WWI-era coaches are naturally and properly paired with a steam locomotive. Secondly, they would have a common color link, in any case: black tops. :wink:
As for green/orange being a bad combination, might I point out the BNSF locomotive schemes as well as the original GN passenger car schemes, both of which use that exact color combination.
Ah, but did they use it in 1917? There's an era and a corresponding aesthetic to be borne in mind with respect to the equipment owned by the Arcade & Attica. The bold, flashy (or garish) color combinations of today's modern freight locomotives shouldn't be used as a guide by which to determine the color scheme of a very much more antique passenger train from a rather more genteel era having more conservatively refined tastes and sensibilities.
 #618826  by BSOR Patarak
 
The orange trim on the windows will disappear. It simply got too cold to finish the paint. With no good spot to put one inside and warm it up, it will stay this way until the spring.

As for the lettering, the gold'ish' or yellow looking like gold is what is planned for the lettering. It will go across the letter boards on the top of the coach. This will be much like the Lackawanna scheme they were delivered in. As for the contrasting hand rails, I thought the bright safety yellow would look sharp on the green and black. It could even be applied to 18's trim and hand holds to make the train set look "complete".

Don't rule out the orange & black. The A&A is still orange and black as the diesels will not be repainted. Also, there is no talk of repainting the depot any other color at this point. The next time the coaches need paint, who knows, they just may go back to orange & black. For now, the green is a "change". Makes for new picture opportunities and hopefully more passengers as it is something "new" to see. Should it negatively impact passenger counts, they would definitely be switched back to the orange. I'm not sure how you'd ever gauge that though...

Any way, now it is up to the railroad to get through the winter and ready 18 for the next season. As they say, "See you in the Spring!"