Anyone have pictures of the A&A steamers from the early days especially the pre A&A days? Builders photos, 1920's, 30's 40's pics? A quick search i found these, not sure if you guys have seen them or not...
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Vintage pictures of #18 and #14?
- All about the Arcade & Attica Railroad
Moderator: Benjamin Maggi
Nice pictures.
Benjamin L. Maggi
A&A Railroad Forum Moderator
A&A Railroad Forum Moderator
Great shots. I've seen the first but I don't know if I recall the second, in the snow. That's unique. Somewhere at the depot they have...or at least had...a ton of old photos of 14, of 18 and of many of the old, scrapped steamers from the line. A few of them hang in the depot, today, but just a sampling of the 'treasure chest' of old photographs of current and former equipment.
While I was volunteering there in the early 90s, one of the conductors and I chanced upon a box tucked away in a covey hole that was just filled with old black & white pictures of the various engines, including pre A&A shots of both 14 & 18. We framed many of them and they were on display in the depot. Most have been taken down, since, I notice, but I'm sure they're there, somewhere.
It would be nice if someone would scan them and feature them on the A&A's website.
Here's a nice shot of No. 14's E. & L. S. look-alike sister, No. 16:
http://www.elsrr.com/railfan%20images/els16.jpg
Here's No. 18's twin sister (too bad the A&A couldn't aquire it), Lowville & Beaver River No. 1923, from two different sites:
http://trains.nute.ws/2-8-0/L&BRR1923.htm
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/onli ... /shs2j.htm
And a marvelous shot of 14 in action on the E. & L. S. R. R.:
http://www.elsrr.com/railfan%20images/els.jpg
They're taken from the Escanaba & Lake Superior website, which features alot of great shots of the line's equipment. Take a look. Here's an excerpt from a history of the Escanaba & Lake Superior written in 1950 that will be of interest...
Finally, the A&A's diesel enthusiasts will be interested to see paint scheme used by the Boyne City RR for its 44 tonners:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-b/boyc70m.jpg
While I was volunteering there in the early 90s, one of the conductors and I chanced upon a box tucked away in a covey hole that was just filled with old black & white pictures of the various engines, including pre A&A shots of both 14 & 18. We framed many of them and they were on display in the depot. Most have been taken down, since, I notice, but I'm sure they're there, somewhere.
It would be nice if someone would scan them and feature them on the A&A's website.
Here's a nice shot of No. 14's E. & L. S. look-alike sister, No. 16:
http://www.elsrr.com/railfan%20images/els16.jpg
Here's No. 18's twin sister (too bad the A&A couldn't aquire it), Lowville & Beaver River No. 1923, from two different sites:
http://trains.nute.ws/2-8-0/L&BRR1923.htm
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/onli ... /shs2j.htm
And a marvelous shot of 14 in action on the E. & L. S. R. R.:
http://www.elsrr.com/railfan%20images/els.jpg
They're taken from the Escanaba & Lake Superior website, which features alot of great shots of the line's equipment. Take a look. Here's an excerpt from a history of the Escanaba & Lake Superior written in 1950 that will be of interest...
It decided to convert from coal burning engines to the more economical diesels. The two Baldwin Diesels – the 1,000 HP No. 100 and the 660 HP Switcher No. 101 – now do virtually all the pushing and pulling of cars in the local yards and on the road to Channing.How ironic that, of the two steam engines they held in reserve, one was A&A's 14 and the other was an ALCO numbered 18.
Two steam locomotives are still held in reserve, however, for relief and special duty. These are No. 14, a Baldwin 4-6-0, purchased new in 1917, and No. 18, built by American Locomotive for the Green Bay & Western Railway in 1913, and purchased and rebuilt by the E&LS in its Wells shops in 1935.
Finally, the A&A's diesel enthusiasts will be interested to see paint scheme used by the Boyne City RR for its 44 tonners:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-b/boyc70m.jpg
Last edited by Mountcastle on Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
A couple more; one of each:
Boyne City Railroad No. 18:
http://www.wabash-railroad.com/images/M ... Y2018M.jpg
Escanaba & Lake Superior No. 14:
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0605/els14.jpg
And while it isn't pre-A&A, here's a short home movie taken in 1971 of No. 14 pulling the excursion train. The quality, as you might imagine, isn't spectacular, but I found it interesting nonetheless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRZrDRjwgoU
Boyne City Railroad No. 18:
http://www.wabash-railroad.com/images/M ... Y2018M.jpg
Escanaba & Lake Superior No. 14:
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0605/els14.jpg
And while it isn't pre-A&A, here's a short home movie taken in 1971 of No. 14 pulling the excursion train. The quality, as you might imagine, isn't spectacular, but I found it interesting nonetheless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRZrDRjwgoU
Here is a view of 14 that always had me wondering. There is an extra lever coming up the engineer's side that connects with brackets either side of the knuckle.
Seeing the other views of 14, I don't see this outfit on the front of her. It was there when it arrived at Arcade but the A&A removed it. The E&LS used 14 as a switch melter in the end. Perhaps the locomotive was put into plow duty. I wondered if this lever ran some sort of flanger that rode on/over the pilot? You can see in the picture there is also an extra rod along side the knuckle (under the air line) going to the front of the cow catcher. I thought this was for extra support to carry the weight of what ever the above levers connected to. In the photo at Don's Depot you can see the extra mechanism from the side and where the two rods connect to the front of the pilot. Anyone have any other thoughts on this or better pictures of it?
Seeing the other views of 14, I don't see this outfit on the front of her. It was there when it arrived at Arcade but the A&A removed it. The E&LS used 14 as a switch melter in the end. Perhaps the locomotive was put into plow duty. I wondered if this lever ran some sort of flanger that rode on/over the pilot? You can see in the picture there is also an extra rod along side the knuckle (under the air line) going to the front of the cow catcher. I thought this was for extra support to carry the weight of what ever the above levers connected to. In the photo at Don's Depot you can see the extra mechanism from the side and where the two rods connect to the front of the pilot. Anyone have any other thoughts on this or better pictures of it?
Last edited by BSOR Patarak on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hard to say 100% but it appears that lever is attached to the pin lifter. That would suggest an arrangement where the engineer could pull the pin from inside the cab - but what about closing the angle cock?
E&LS was relatively small - did they use this as a pusher and cut off on the fly? Normally they would cut the air in on the loco (and cut the stand out) but maybe they pushed with no air hooked up?
(edit) After getting a magnifying glass, I'm going to change my mind. What I thought was connected to the pin lifter now looks like one of the two round tubing pilot braces. The lever from the engineer's side is different. Maybe you are right about a flanger blade or a larger plow which can be raised or lowered slightly. If it was a switch melter, did it have some sort of piping which directed steam toward the track, similar to a weed spray boom? That would be relatively light. The argument against a plow blade would be its weight, if it was rugged enough to plow snow with it would be hard to raise and lower manually unless you had a LOT of leverage.
E&LS was relatively small - did they use this as a pusher and cut off on the fly? Normally they would cut the air in on the loco (and cut the stand out) but maybe they pushed with no air hooked up?
(edit) After getting a magnifying glass, I'm going to change my mind. What I thought was connected to the pin lifter now looks like one of the two round tubing pilot braces. The lever from the engineer's side is different. Maybe you are right about a flanger blade or a larger plow which can be raised or lowered slightly. If it was a switch melter, did it have some sort of piping which directed steam toward the track, similar to a weed spray boom? That would be relatively light. The argument against a plow blade would be its weight, if it was rugged enough to plow snow with it would be hard to raise and lower manually unless you had a LOT of leverage.
Last edited by BR&P on Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That is what I thought at first also. If you look, there are two levers that extend out to the front of the engine either side of the knuckle. That arrangement is actually just behind the cut lever. I don't think it attaches to it.
Here is one more vintage view of 14 at a water tank in Wells, Michigan dated 1956.
It is a small image, but none of the extra levers are on the front at this point.
Notice the tender. The top around the coal bin is not the same as the tender in use today.
It is a small image, but none of the extra levers are on the front at this point.
Notice the tender. The top around the coal bin is not the same as the tender in use today.
Last edited by BSOR Patarak on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No, it isn't the tender of the A&A #14, but that's the tender you see in any pictures of #14 from her E&LS days (at least that I've seen or paid attention to), which begs the question, where did the current tender (now attached to 18) come from? Unless, of course, it is the same tender and they simply removed that upper 'lip' (for lack of the actual term) for some reason.
But what happened to the original pilot? Also, at least one early picture of No. 14 (see the Ed Lewis book) shows some sort of odd tube-shaped thing attached to the front of the smoke stack. Any ideas what that was and why it was removed?
Interestingly, Bachmann Spectrum makes an HO scale Baldwin 'high boiler' 4-6-0 and tender that are nearly identical to No. 14 and her original tender (as usual, however, the domes are all wrong).
But what happened to the original pilot? Also, at least one early picture of No. 14 (see the Ed Lewis book) shows some sort of odd tube-shaped thing attached to the front of the smoke stack. Any ideas what that was and why it was removed?
Interestingly, Bachmann Spectrum makes an HO scale Baldwin 'high boiler' 4-6-0 and tender that are nearly identical to No. 14 and her original tender (as usual, however, the domes are all wrong).
The tube type pilot that is on 18 currently actually came off of 14 as well. As for the tender, it was either a temporary tender in the picture, it was modified. The other earlier pictures of 14 show the same tender type as what it came to Arcade with (and is now behind 18).
Actually, Pat, if you refer to the Lewis book you'll find an image of a brand new locomotive No. 14 and see that the tender in question (the tender that did not make its way to Arcade, that is) was paired with 14 from the beginning.
Originally, that tender did not have the name of the railroad painted on either side, but only a very large number '14' (The cab bore the initials 'E. & L. S. R. R.' beneath the windows). So I don't think it was a temporary tender, but the original one. Although I see, now, after looking at various pictures of 14 posted here and elsewhere that the current tender was paired with 14 previous to her delivery to Arcade.
As to the pilot, it just 'came off'? What happened?
Originally, that tender did not have the name of the railroad painted on either side, but only a very large number '14' (The cab bore the initials 'E. & L. S. R. R.' beneath the windows). So I don't think it was a temporary tender, but the original one. Although I see, now, after looking at various pictures of 14 posted here and elsewhere that the current tender was paired with 14 previous to her delivery to Arcade.
As to the pilot, it just 'came off'? What happened?
By golly I hadn't noticed that tender in the builders photo before. It has older style trucks than the "current" tender too. It would be nice if the photos above were dated. I wonder if 14 was the last active steamer on the E&LS? If so, perhaps they took the best pieces from the remaining steamers to keep it going?
As for the tube you mentioned from a Lewis book picture, are you again referring to the builders photo? The only one I see is the steam generator exhaust line going up the front of the stack. Is this the tube you are talking about?
The tube pilot I speak of was taken off of 14 in the 90's sometime and put on 18 to replace a wooden one. Looking back though, 14 arrived with a wooden pilot and was converted to the tube type later on. By 76 it was the tube type.
As for the tube you mentioned from a Lewis book picture, are you again referring to the builders photo? The only one I see is the steam generator exhaust line going up the front of the stack. Is this the tube you are talking about?
The tube pilot I speak of was taken off of 14 in the 90's sometime and put on 18 to replace a wooden one. Looking back though, 14 arrived with a wooden pilot and was converted to the tube type later on. By 76 it was the tube type.
Pat:
In the course of a reply earlier on this thread, I posted a quote from a history of the E&LS RR featured on their website that indicates that No. 14 was one of two steam engines retained by the railroad after the others had all been replaced by diesel power. Ironically, the other steam engine they retained was an ALCO 2-8-0, numbered 18.
The tube running up the front of the smoke stack is the tube I was referring to, yes. So, the exhaust tube from the generator is what it is? Well, at any rate, it disappeared at some point before the engine arrived in Arcade.
I realize that the tube pilot replaced the wooden pilot, I just wasn't sure what happened to the wooden pilot; you mentioned that it 'came off'? Did it break, somehow, or was it removed for another reason? And did they keep it, do you know?
By the way, you may not remember me, but our paths crossed briefly in the mid 90s as I was starting (as a volunteer) and as you were leaving. My name is James. During the time you and I were contemporaries at the A&A, you were a conductor and I led tours through the Warwick and often helped with ticket sales. I recall how much you loved Linda.
How's life?
In the course of a reply earlier on this thread, I posted a quote from a history of the E&LS RR featured on their website that indicates that No. 14 was one of two steam engines retained by the railroad after the others had all been replaced by diesel power. Ironically, the other steam engine they retained was an ALCO 2-8-0, numbered 18.
The tube running up the front of the smoke stack is the tube I was referring to, yes. So, the exhaust tube from the generator is what it is? Well, at any rate, it disappeared at some point before the engine arrived in Arcade.
I realize that the tube pilot replaced the wooden pilot, I just wasn't sure what happened to the wooden pilot; you mentioned that it 'came off'? Did it break, somehow, or was it removed for another reason? And did they keep it, do you know?
By the way, you may not remember me, but our paths crossed briefly in the mid 90s as I was starting (as a volunteer) and as you were leaving. My name is James. During the time you and I were contemporaries at the A&A, you were a conductor and I led tours through the Warwick and often helped with ticket sales. I recall how much you loved Linda.
How's life?