SEHSR Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor

[Bob Roberts]

Purchasing around 150 miles of right-of-way to only achieve 110 mph seems wasteful. How many trains per day would be using it? Carolinian, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, and Palmetto; eight passenger trains per day. I don't believe Amtrak would buy it either, Amtrak would place that task upon both the states of Virginia and North Carolina.

IIRC the SEHSR plan involves eight additional Charlotte round trips to DC / NEC using the S line.

There is a LONG history of state owned tracks in NC -- The NCRR was a critical element of North Carolina's industrial era development and a case can be made that the SEHSR can play a similar role in the post-industrial era. NC's dispersed urban system is certainly an impediment for economic growth, tieing it together with pax rail might help create some agglomeration where none currently exists (Greensboro may be the biggest beneficiary to this). While the S line is peripheral to this process, the presence of a faster and shorter linkage to the NEC helps to justify continued improvements on the Piedmont/NCRR corridor.

The main reason for the S line purchase was a) its much shorter path (than the A line) from Raleigh to Petersbrug and b) preserving it for potential future 220mph service (it is already straight and largely grade separated). If a true NEC extension to Richmond Main Street is ever completed then state ownership of the S line makes it a trivial exercise to extend NEC quality service to Raleigh.

[Arlington]

Purchasing around 150 miles of right-of-way to only achieve 110 mph seems wasteful. How many trains per day would be using it? Carolinian, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, and Palmetto; eight passenger trains per day. I don't believe Amtrak would buy it either, Amtrak would place that task upon both the states of Virginia and North Carolina.

...The main reason for the S line purchase was a) its much shorter path (than the A line) from Raleigh to Petersbrugh and b) preserving it for potential future 220mph service (it is already straight and largely grade seperated).

Yes, the shorter routing (going directly to Raleigh) is said to save 1 hour (I think that's at 79 or 90mph) and starting smaller/slower and working up gradually (on both speeds and frequencies) has served NC& VA well. You'll see in theVADRPT presentation that VA knows that 1 train per day to NFK isn't "worth it" either, and still has another $82m to spend to get it up to 90mph and add r/t #2 and #3, and other improvements around the system they have. Slow, steady, build-up.

You might also ask: if SEHSR is all about NEC access, how does VA gain by spending any $ south of Petersburg? Shouldn't VA be spending all its money north-of-Petersburg? The answer can only be that one of the best ways to support service from your southern terminus, like Petersburg, if you're VA (or Charlotte, if you're NC) is to build ridership to/from points further south in order that (1) your route not peter out at its dangling end, by loading on people from an even-more-dangling end (2) to make traffic bi-directional.

When Virginia finally buys those 63 miles of S-Line, they're really going to be buying them (1) on behalf of NC/SC/GA folks who travel to/from the NEC (2) on behalf of Virginians who'd actually make non-NEC trips. The S-Line south of Petersburg, while technically in VA, actually serves a market a lot like whatever NC might come up with to promote service south of CLT.

[Bob Roberts]

It still doesn't mean much but representatives from Georgia and even SC were involved in discussions about a rail compact with NC and VA. The Washington Times had the story, beware of popups.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -being-di/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kinda tough to interpret the official SC spin:

Although South Carolina’s population growth pattern differs from that of the other three states, officials there are discussing the possibility of joining the compact, said Doug Frate, director of intermodal and freight programs for that state’s Transportation Department. “Obviously, we don’t have the type of population centers that exist” in northern Virginian, North Carolina’s Triangle and Charlotte areas and Atlanta, he said.

“That said, we are experiencing our own population growth and own growth patterns” that may need new types of transportation for both residents and visitors, particularly in the Charleston area, he said.

[mtuandrew]

It still doesn't mean much but representatives from Georgia and even SC were involved in discussions about a rail compact with NC and VA. The Washington Times had the story, beware of popups.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -being-di/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kinda tough to interpret the official SC spin:

Although South Carolina’s population growth pattern differs from that of the other three states, officials there are discussing the possibility of joining the compact, said Doug Frate, director of intermodal and freight programs for that state’s Transportation Department. “Obviously, we don’t have the type of population centers that exist” in northern Virginian, North Carolina’s Triangle and Charlotte areas and Atlanta, he said.

“That said, we are experiencing our own population growth and own growth patterns” that may need new types of transportation for both residents and visitors, particularly in the Charleston area, he said.

Hey, it's something. Also, I'd personally wonder whether Mr. Frate and his office have considered the potential growth of population centers in both upper (in the Spartanburg-Greenville-Clemson string) and central-southern South Carolina (between Columbia and Charleston), and the impact HSR could have on those centers.

[gokeefe]

Well that's a fairly earth shattering official statement for anyone working in transportation on behalf of the State of South Carolina.

[SouthernRailway]

Well that's a fairly earth shattering official statement for anyone working in transportation on behalf of the State of South Carolina.

True.

FYI South Carolina even had an "official" Public Transportation Day or Week or something back in the '90s, encouraging people to try public transportation--which is so sparse in the state that it's not really feasible unless you are carless (which only very poor people there generally are), and so who knows what good it did since there were no improvements to public transportation in connection with the publicity. Greenville even had plans for an intermodal transportation center where the current Amtrak station is, back in the '70s when the Southern Railway still ran passenger trains there.

So there have been hints of transportation progress from time to time. Sadly, they've come to nothing.

[Greg Moore]

A small hint of progress.

Georgia transportation officials say they’re reviewing an agreement between other Southern states to study the project.

[Arlington]

The medium is the message: SEHSR.org has replaced its old Richmond-Raleigh-oriented site with a bare-bones (but comprehensive) set of links to projects going on in the whole WAS-ATL corridor.
http://www.sehsr.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Arlington]

Secretary Foxx promises new action (in the next 18 months) and new governing structure to advance SEHSR
http://www.transportation.gov/fastlane/ ... speed-rail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also announced that this Department will undertake a $1 million planning effort to create a shared, workable vision for a Southeast passenger rail network that connects Washington, DC to Richmond, to Charlotte, to Raleigh, and to Atlanta. These are cities that --like their Northeast Corridor counterparts-- are business and population centers between which people need a travel option beyond crowded highways and airplanes.

As part of this, we’ll create a governance organization to oversee this whole process. But this is not going to be one of those initiatives where we talk about it for another decade while the cost of taking action increases and economic growth gets choked by congestion. We're ready to do something substantial in the next 18 months to begin recreating the benefits of the Northeast Corridor and continue fueling economic prosperity in the Southeast.

An updated gif of where the EIS processes stand:

[Arlington]

While not a NYP "Gateway" sized fiasco, the Long Bridge (ALX-WAS) replacement project--upon whose capacity all this south of WAS service relies-- is looking pretty forlorn (http://longbridgeproject.com/resources-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) No meetings for a nearly a year and no new docs for a year and a half.

[afiggatt]

While not a NYP "Gateway" sized fiasco, the Long Bridge (ALX-WAS) replacement project--upon whose capacity all this south of WAS service relies-- is looking pretty forlorn (http://longbridgeproject.com/resources-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) No meetings for a nearly a year and no new docs for a year and a half.

Not correct. While DC DOT has not updated the Long Bridge website, the Final Report for the Long Bridge alternative analysis study was completed in May: DC DOT webpage. Fairly lengthy and extensive report. DC DOT landed a $2.8 million FY14 TIGER planning grant, so combined with funding from VA, DC & VA (and Amtrak, CSX, VRE) will be able to proceed to the Tier II EIS phase, select the design alternative, and I expect, get a Record of Decision from the FRA. My prediction, after I skimmed the study report back in early June, is that after spending millions for the alternative down-select and environmental & cost analysis, they will select the obvious alternative, a 4 track bridge with a pedestrian/bike lane. The $6 billion tunnel alternatives are not going to get pass the first cut of alternative selections. The long range planning documents for VRE have the Long Bridge replacement project starting in the early 2020s timeframe IIRC.

[Arlington]

^ Ok, I'll take that as a partial correction. It still looks forlorn (and too slow/late in a Gateway, B&P Tunnel kinda way)

[Greg Moore]

^ Ok, I'll take that as a partial correction. It still looks forlorn (and too slow/late in a Gateway, B&P Tunnel kinda way)

That's a general description of many (and I think most rail) infrastructure projects in this country.

Toss in CREATE around Chicago that could be doing more...

[Arlington]

It still doesn't mean much but representatives from Georgia and even SC were involved in discussions about a rail compact with NC and VA. ...Kinda tough to interpret the official SC spin:

Although South Carolina’s population growth pattern differs from that of the other three states, officials there are discussing the possibility of joining the compact, said Doug Frate, director of intermodal and freight programs for that state’s Transportation Department. “Obviously, we don’t have the type of population centers that exist” in northern Virginian, North Carolina’s Triangle and Charlotte areas and Atlanta, he said.

“That said, we are experiencing our own population growth and own growth patterns” that may need new types of transportation for both residents and visitors, particularly in the Charleston area, he said.

And if we'd asked in May, how many would've guessed that the Confederate Flag would have been taken down 'tween then and now? Like techtonic plates making an earthquake: Frozen for a long time, then a big shift. SC Gov Nikki Haley's got a speech coming up on Sept 2nd on the "New South" on social and economic challenges. Maybe she'll list equitable infrastructure among them.

[mtuandrew]

And if we'd asked in May, how many would've guessed that the Confederate Flag would have been taken down 'tween then and now? Like techtonic plates making an earthquake: Frozen for a long time, then a big shift. SC Gov Nikki Haley's got a speech coming up on Sept 2nd on the "New South" on social and economic challenges. Maybe she'll list equitable infrastructure among them.

Hopefully so. It'll be a while until the transit-minded folks in the Palmetto State convince their car-minded neighbors to buy into a tax increase, I fear, but maybe things will progress far more quickly. The iron is hot, strike it.