Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN: Metro Transit commuter rail

[electricron]

From http://www.startribune.com/local/78990087.html

Northstar ridership below Metro Transit goals
Still, Metro Transit calls debut "very positive."
By BOB VON STERNBERG , Star Tribune
Last update: December 10, 2009 - 11:54 PM
Ridership on the fledgling Northstar commuter train is running slightly behind Metro Transit's weekly goals, but officials nonetheless called it "a very positive" debut. During the train's first 15 days of operation last month, it averaged 2,207 passengers a day, compared with a 2010 daily average goal of about 2,460. "While it is too early to make sweeping statements, these early ridership results indicate to us a very positive response to the state's newest transportation option," Metro Transit General Manager Brian Lamb said in a prepared statement.

During the train's first 15 days of operation last month, it averaged 2,207 passengers a day, compared with a 2010 daily average goal of about 2,460. Metro Transit General Manager Brian Lamb said that regular ridership patterns will not emerge until next year and that the November results included a long holiday weekend when many commuters stayed home.

[transit man]

Last week I observed Frontrunner locomotive #12 and 3 Northstar coaches laying over in downtown Minneapolis. No additional information available at this time.

[Rockingham Racer]

I've got a couple of questions:

1- Is ridership building at all?

2- Is the running between Northtown and Big Lake left-handed as a general rule?

3- Looking at the pictures of the stations, I'm wondering particularly about Fridley:
Is it a center platform, or 2 platforms on both sides?

[mtuandrew]

I've got a couple of questions:

1- Is ridership building at all?

2- Is the running between Northtown and Big Lake left-handed as a general rule?

3- Looking at the pictures of the stations, I'm wondering particularly about Fridley:
Is it a center platform, or 2 platforms on both sides?

1. Somewhat, though it still isn't meeting expectations. The Star Tribune just published an article about it today: Bus riders give commuter rail a boost
Fair-use quote:

Minnesota's first commuter rail line has gotten a dramatic boost -- from bus riders.

Ridership on the Northstar Link Commuter Bus was up 106 percent last month over May 2010, jumping from 1,697 rides to 3,499. The bus service, combined with climbing gas prices and increased familiarity with the Northstar commuter rail line, which runs from Big Lake to downtown Minneapolis, has pushed train ridership up by more than 6 percent over the first four months of 2011. Train ridership in April was up more than 16 percent from April 2010.

...

What proponents of the $317 million commuter rail line did not anticipate were ridership projections that were well off the mark. Northstar fell 21 percent short of meeting projections in its first full year.

2. That I couldn't tell you, but I don't think so. It's bi-directional, so BNSF can put trains on whichever track it wants.

3. Fridley is a two-platform station, but the southbound platform is accessible only by tunnels, either from the west under a freight spur, or from the east under the BNSF Northern Transcon.

[Rockingham Racer]

Thanks, Andrew, for the reply. I believe the original proposal to extend service up to St. Cloud has been deemed not cost-effective, but feeder buses will subsitute between Big Lake and St. Cloud.

[mtuandrew]

Indeed so. Ridership on the buses is not overwhelming either, but it's a useful feeder, and eventually might cause the FRA to rethink its decision. Likewise, the Northstar's lackluster ridership hasn't boded well for future heavy rail feeders to the Twin Cities, but there's still a large demand for light rail and regional rail.

[neroden]

Thanks, Andrew, for the reply. I believe the original proposal to extend service up to St. Cloud has been deemed not cost-effective, but feeder buses will subsitute between Big Lake and St. Cloud.

I am highly suspicious of the definition of "cost-effective" being used. It seems to me that having a city of 65,000 at the far end of the line, rather than the 9700 of Big Lake, would change the dynamics of the line in a significant and positive way.

[electricron]

I would like to add that ridership can be affected by many variables. As mentioned earlier, terminating city is one. Others include headways between trains, number of trains a day, hours of day the train operates, number of stations, spacing of stations, etc. On many projects around the country, decisions about operations occur long after the planners predict the ridership, and these operating decisions made later void the earlier projections.

[gearhead]

Would a St. Paul to Minni Express Commuter Train help here? Like St Paul-Bandana Square Entergy Park-Minni Train. The bus takes a long time even with the light rail. The light rail will not be that much faster either

[mtuandrew]

Would a St. Paul to Minni Express Commuter Train help here? Like St Paul-Bandana Square Entergy Park-Minni Train. The bus takes a long time even with the light rail. The light rail will not be that much faster either

The Red Rock Commuter Rail plan was supposed to feature a link to Minneapolis from St. Paul, following the CP Rail Short Line, the Minnesota Commercial and the BNSF main. It'd make sense to run a stub Minneapolis-St. Paul train, but the maintenance base is up in Big Lake, plus they'd need to do trackwork to reinstall sidings along the CP Rail line and a second track under Hwy 280 on the BNSF line.

[trainmaster611]

Would a St. Paul to Minni Express Commuter Train help here? Like St Paul-Bandana Square Entergy Park-Minni Train. The bus takes a long time even with the light rail. The light rail will not be that much faster either

I thought about the same thing too -- using commuter rail for an 'express' service between the twin cities. But if you look at a map of the twin cities, the route between St. Paul Union Depot and Minneapolis Target Station is a bit meandering. Unfortunately, this combined with FRA style equipment (MPI's and Bombardier Bi-levels) is going to be inefficient and slow down the trains significantly. There isn't any corridor to speak of that follows the tracks either.

As far as time improvement over the bus though -- endpoint to endpoint time is going to be a good 8 minutes faster than the existing express bus which is pretty significant over distances like this.

[electricron]

10 miles is just a little short on distance to be effective as commuter rail. Commuter rail operations are more efficient at longer distances. Light rail is more efficient at 10 miles, with 10 to 20 stations along the way, it'll will easily attract more than 5 times as many riders.

[Jeff Smith]

Daily commuter ridership up on Northstar; overall ridership drops slightly

Ridership among daily commuters on the Northstar commuter rail was up 7 percent in 2011. Overall ridership declined 1 percent, however, primarily due to a freight train derailment near Fridley in mid-July which halted all rail service on the BNSF track for several days, according to Metro Transit General Manager Brian Lamb.

...

The Big Lake station had the greatest ridership compared to Elk River, Anoka, Coon Rapids and Fridley, with a total 2011 ridership of 106,720. Elk River was second in ridership at 100,017. Elk River had edged Big Lake in ridership in 2010.

...

Overall across the Metro Transit bus and train system, 2011 ridership topped 80 million for only the second time in a generation.

There's also an interesting graph: http://erstarnews.com/wp-content/upload ... online.pdf

[Wingnut]

It's noteworthy that the two farthest stations are the ones with the greatest ridership. Generally speaking, the farther one travels to reach a city center, the greater the acceptance of relatively infrequent or peak only service. The only way Northstar can get significantly more passengers to use the closer in station is to implement off peak service.

[mtuandrew]

It's noteworthy that the two farthest stations are the ones with the greatest ridership. Generally speaking, the farther one travels to reach a city center, the greater the acceptance of relatively infrequent or peak only service. The only way Northstar can get significantly more passengers to use the closer in station is to implement off peak service.

It's also worth noting the bus service from St. Cloud, which (if I remember correctly from www.catchthelink.com) provided 75,000 riders from St. Cloud to Big Lake last year. Nearly all of those riders transfer to the train there, though there are a few buses that go all the way to Minneapolis in lieu of a midday train.