Village Manager James Politi is singing in the rain, downright giddy as he walks along the train tracks, waxing poetic about Walden's budding redevelopment plans.http://www.recordonline.com/archive/200 ... 02-01.html
"Look," he says, pointing to the rails. "If I stand on these tracks, I'm touching New York City."
The tracks belong to Norfolk Southern, and they're still used to deliver freight to local industrial sites.
But with time, careful planning and plenty of money, Politi hopes the rails will carry commuters and tourists up and down Metro-North Railroad's Port Jervis line. "Two hours from the greatest city in the world," he says, "and you can still come back to a small town."
Whoa, slow down. Commuter rail in Walden? Just like that?
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New Commuter Line Between Walden & NYC? (Walkill Valley NS)
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Um. Wow.
As much as it brings a tear to my eye to think of NJT GP40's serving my ol' hometown, I'll reserve judgement until I read the actual proposal from the town/county.
-otto-
As much as it brings a tear to my eye to think of NJT GP40's serving my ol' hometown, I'll reserve judgement until I read the actual proposal from the town/county.
-otto-
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Dream on, Politi!!!
You've got some mighty big obstacles there, like, I don't know, demographic factors, the mere nine miles people can drive to Campbell Hall and, IIRC, the prison in Walkill where the tracks used to be.
Much bigger priorities, too many conflicts, etc. etc.
You've got some mighty big obstacles there, like, I don't know, demographic factors, the mere nine miles people can drive to Campbell Hall and, IIRC, the prison in Walkill where the tracks used to be.
Much bigger priorities, too many conflicts, etc. etc.
Isn't the prison located north of Walden? That is, the prison location itself would not interfere with establishing rail service south to the PJ line.
However, the prison location splits the Walkill Valley Rail Trail from the Shawangunk, Walden, and Wallkill Rail Trail. An on-road route is necessary if you want to travel between the two trails now.
However, the prison location splits the Walkill Valley Rail Trail from the Shawangunk, Walden, and Wallkill Rail Trail. An on-road route is necessary if you want to travel between the two trails now.
Of course you're right about the prison being north (I discovered that while doing the rail trail). What I was referring to, in general, was the ability to tap potential riders and the obstacle that the prison and interrupted ROW present in getting potential riders north of Walden.
We have a screwy form of Village Government in Walden, with a Village Manager who is NOT beholden to the electorate (and don't even get me going on the subject of the Village Board).
The root of all this nonsense is an attempted land grab (gee, what a surprise).
The Village Manager and his consultant buddy Alan Sorensen came up with this pipe dream to rezone all of the area around the former Walden station site (station itself was moved several blocks away into a Village park years ago) as a mixed-use zone, with the notion of creating this entire business/residential center. In so doing they made all of the businesses and remaining industrial firms non-complying. So, while not an immediate issue, the land mines are already in place for uprooting the businesses.
The "Train to the City" isn't. The plan is to offer a shuttle to Campbell Hall. By the way, the plan was hatched BEFORE anybody talked to NS or the MTA. Truth be told, at the outset, the Village Manager didn't even know what railroad ran in town, as evidenced by testimony at Village Board meetings that CSX would be the railroad to contact!
It's not about the trains.
I spoke to several of the Village Board members to describe what would be involved in resurrecting the line for passenger service
That's roughly 10 miles of essentially FRA Class 1 track (maybe generously class 2 in some places) of Erie 90-pound and NYC 105 Dudley stick rail (maybe some better relay here and there), at least 16 grade crossing without lights/gates, with two crossings of State Highways). Consider the ballpark figure of $1.5 million/mile for ties/resurfacing, and $100K for lights/flashers at each crossing, more at Routes 17K and 207. Property acquisition/condemnation for station sites, and the loss of that plus the right-of-way from the tax base (MTA runs on it, no taxes....), and you have a pretty penny of expenses. That doesn't include replacement of the stick rail, either. I met with several Village Board members and laid this out -obviously to no avail.
It's not about the trains.
...And for what clientele? Nobody has a clue how many people from the area use Metro-North. (Remember, they contacted Metro-North after the fact).
You’re going to wait for a train, to go wait for a train, to go wait for a train? Alternative is 20-minute drive to Campbell Hall, get on the train - which still will generally require at least one more change of train/bus/ferry/PATH/subway ride to get to the City.
How would you transfer from a shuttle at Campbell Hall and a Port Jervis train? Wye tracks are not really near the existing, relatively new station and parking area. Nobody from Village government has talked to Town of Montgomery, Village of Montgomery, or the Town of Hamptonburgh how this might impact them, either.
It's not about the trains.
There's no open space to park in Walden, even if you wanted to create a Transit village. As it is, the shops on Main Street/Route 52 are chronically complaining about the lack of parking. The Walden Industrial, or remnant of the Wallkill Valley stub ends at Route 52, where the old low-clearance truss bridge over Route 52 was removed. Aside from the Fire Department parking lot just south of the Route 208 Bridge, there is no open space of any consequence near the tracks for this proposed "transit village" type development. There are a few "underutilized" former mill buildings in this vicinity, including the former Ericsson/Paulsen Spence facility. The Village Manager has already decided these are suitable of adaptive reuse as office/residential buildings. Didn't bother talking to the owners beforehand, though!
Village Trustee Dick Hurd is fond of saying "I'm not telling any property owner what to do with their property". But we'll change zoning laws to do just that, and decide what people should do with their property without consulting with them. A polite word for that is "inconsistent"....I'm personally inclined not to be that polite.
But if you push out the existing businesses, and position them through zoning rule changes so they eventually have to dump their property, you'll eliminate the reason for the railroad to be there, to begin with.... well, you can figure out what's going on.
It's not about the trains.
What's particularly interesting is a year or so ago there was a big uproar in town centered over the Villages' proposed purchase of a brand-new garage/office from Degroot Paving, on Route 52 and adjacent to the physical end-of-track, allegedly for use by the Village Department of Public Works. Building wouldn't have fit the DPW needs, and would have required all sorts of ADA compliance upgrades for public use. And who wants another pit of a DPW facility right on the main drag into town? (Refer to current DPW facility).
After much vitrics, the $400K purchase of the building was shot down.
So now this new proposal appears.
And lastly, you have Rep. Su Kelly's initiative to bring rail service to Stewart Airport, which already has a pile of money allocated to it. Not by any stretch of imagination will it tie into Walden.
Who do you think is going to get the money, if at all?
The root of all this nonsense is an attempted land grab (gee, what a surprise).
The Village Manager and his consultant buddy Alan Sorensen came up with this pipe dream to rezone all of the area around the former Walden station site (station itself was moved several blocks away into a Village park years ago) as a mixed-use zone, with the notion of creating this entire business/residential center. In so doing they made all of the businesses and remaining industrial firms non-complying. So, while not an immediate issue, the land mines are already in place for uprooting the businesses.
The "Train to the City" isn't. The plan is to offer a shuttle to Campbell Hall. By the way, the plan was hatched BEFORE anybody talked to NS or the MTA. Truth be told, at the outset, the Village Manager didn't even know what railroad ran in town, as evidenced by testimony at Village Board meetings that CSX would be the railroad to contact!
It's not about the trains.
I spoke to several of the Village Board members to describe what would be involved in resurrecting the line for passenger service
That's roughly 10 miles of essentially FRA Class 1 track (maybe generously class 2 in some places) of Erie 90-pound and NYC 105 Dudley stick rail (maybe some better relay here and there), at least 16 grade crossing without lights/gates, with two crossings of State Highways). Consider the ballpark figure of $1.5 million/mile for ties/resurfacing, and $100K for lights/flashers at each crossing, more at Routes 17K and 207. Property acquisition/condemnation for station sites, and the loss of that plus the right-of-way from the tax base (MTA runs on it, no taxes....), and you have a pretty penny of expenses. That doesn't include replacement of the stick rail, either. I met with several Village Board members and laid this out -obviously to no avail.
It's not about the trains.
...And for what clientele? Nobody has a clue how many people from the area use Metro-North. (Remember, they contacted Metro-North after the fact).
You’re going to wait for a train, to go wait for a train, to go wait for a train? Alternative is 20-minute drive to Campbell Hall, get on the train - which still will generally require at least one more change of train/bus/ferry/PATH/subway ride to get to the City.
How would you transfer from a shuttle at Campbell Hall and a Port Jervis train? Wye tracks are not really near the existing, relatively new station and parking area. Nobody from Village government has talked to Town of Montgomery, Village of Montgomery, or the Town of Hamptonburgh how this might impact them, either.
It's not about the trains.
There's no open space to park in Walden, even if you wanted to create a Transit village. As it is, the shops on Main Street/Route 52 are chronically complaining about the lack of parking. The Walden Industrial, or remnant of the Wallkill Valley stub ends at Route 52, where the old low-clearance truss bridge over Route 52 was removed. Aside from the Fire Department parking lot just south of the Route 208 Bridge, there is no open space of any consequence near the tracks for this proposed "transit village" type development. There are a few "underutilized" former mill buildings in this vicinity, including the former Ericsson/Paulsen Spence facility. The Village Manager has already decided these are suitable of adaptive reuse as office/residential buildings. Didn't bother talking to the owners beforehand, though!
Village Trustee Dick Hurd is fond of saying "I'm not telling any property owner what to do with their property". But we'll change zoning laws to do just that, and decide what people should do with their property without consulting with them. A polite word for that is "inconsistent"....I'm personally inclined not to be that polite.
But if you push out the existing businesses, and position them through zoning rule changes so they eventually have to dump their property, you'll eliminate the reason for the railroad to be there, to begin with.... well, you can figure out what's going on.
It's not about the trains.
What's particularly interesting is a year or so ago there was a big uproar in town centered over the Villages' proposed purchase of a brand-new garage/office from Degroot Paving, on Route 52 and adjacent to the physical end-of-track, allegedly for use by the Village Department of Public Works. Building wouldn't have fit the DPW needs, and would have required all sorts of ADA compliance upgrades for public use. And who wants another pit of a DPW facility right on the main drag into town? (Refer to current DPW facility).
After much vitrics, the $400K purchase of the building was shot down.
So now this new proposal appears.
And lastly, you have Rep. Su Kelly's initiative to bring rail service to Stewart Airport, which already has a pile of money allocated to it. Not by any stretch of imagination will it tie into Walden.
Who do you think is going to get the money, if at all?
This is part of the problem with NY State... Too much politics and "home rule" laws. Stuff like this doesn't happen where I was in CT (of course, on a different level) but come on.
We have the State Government
We have the County Government
We have the Town Government
We have the Village Government (if in a village)
We have the School Board
We have the Protection Districts (if applicable)
Way too many layers of overlapping government.
In the county I work for (next to Orange) its very apparent, and it sucks.
We have the State Government
We have the County Government
We have the Town Government
We have the Village Government (if in a village)
We have the School Board
We have the Protection Districts (if applicable)
Way too many layers of overlapping government.
In the county I work for (next to Orange) its very apparent, and it sucks.
The whole thread was neatly covered by the "not about railroads"
but the discussion of state/local guvmint was great! That is
exactly how things run in NYS. However, I will say that the
layers of guvmint don't necessarily have to be bad. Local
control of things is really a GOOD thing IF the locals
get involved and actually do the work. All to often they
have little or no involvement in what goes on and the
bottom feeders WILL take advantage.
If you want another interesting local rail possibility
look south to Rockland Co and the disused
Erie tracks out of Spring Valley/Suffern.
More local politics at its finest.
but the discussion of state/local guvmint was great! That is
exactly how things run in NYS. However, I will say that the
layers of guvmint don't necessarily have to be bad. Local
control of things is really a GOOD thing IF the locals
get involved and actually do the work. All to often they
have little or no involvement in what goes on and the
bottom feeders WILL take advantage.
If you want another interesting local rail possibility
look south to Rockland Co and the disused
Erie tracks out of Spring Valley/Suffern.
More local politics at its finest.
Some years ago NJT proposed using the Piermont Branch to move equipment between Spring Valley and Suffern because there wasn't room in Woodbine Yard for more equipment. Also, Woodbine is in the middle of Spring Valley and residents complained about idling engines, etc. The Suffern yard is more isolated from residences. However, Monsey objected and NJT never did use the Piermont for equipment moves.
<MINOR BUMP> while I investigate if this is related to service proposed to Stewart Airport, which I think it is not. Moved this from NYS forum; not yet ready to move it to MNRR since it seems to have no life and is not on MNRR's agenda.
Next stop, Willoughby
~el Jefe :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner; Carman at Naugatuck Railroad
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~el Jefe :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner; Carman at Naugatuck Railroad
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From what I understand, the current (recent) feasibility study, under final review by MNRR, is to extend the Port Jervis line into Walden.
Sixthflick, thanks for joining? Do you have anything to show that study? As far as I know, the WOH study doesn't contemplate any service beyond Port Jervis.
Next stop, Willoughby
~el Jefe :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner; Carman at Naugatuck Railroad
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~el Jefe :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner; Carman at Naugatuck Railroad
YouTube Instagram Facebook
Hi Jeff,
I do not. My knowledge is strictly from discussions with those directly connected to the study as well as my own personal research on the subject, but I do not have any information or images beyond that which I'm able to share. Governor Cuomo recently approved a portion of $1.6Mil in funding to "rehabilitate the rail line between Campbell Hall and Warwick, as well as portions of track in Middletown and between Walden and Montogomery".
I do not. My knowledge is strictly from discussions with those directly connected to the study as well as my own personal research on the subject, but I do not have any information or images beyond that which I'm able to share. Governor Cuomo recently approved a portion of $1.6Mil in funding to "rehabilitate the rail line between Campbell Hall and Warwick, as well as portions of track in Middletown and between Walden and Montogomery".