Solution for loud trains: eliminate seats facing each other

[SouthernRailway]

For me, a huge downside of public transportation is loud passengers. Even if 95% of people in a train car are considerate and relatively quiet, it takes just 1 or 2 loud people to make a trip unpleasant.

Today on Metro-North, (1) one group of passengers screamed profanity throughout my entire 2 hour trip, and (2) one other group played their iPhones at full volume, without headsets, and laughed and carried on very loudly. That made it impossible for me to just relax and get stuff done.

Those loud passengers, and loud passengers generally, seem to sit in seats facing each other, which encourage conversation.

I propose that in most cars on a train, no 2 seats should face one another. If there need to be some seats facing in one direction and others facing in the other direction (to avoid needing to turn the car around at end stations), that can be done by having seats in the middle of the car be back-to-back, not facing each other.

If no 2 seats face each other, then people won't be as tempted to yap and carry on.

Perhaps there could be one car per train where all or many of the seats face each other. The loudmouths can sit there.

Anyone with me on this?

[electricron]

People will be people, and all of us misbehave most of the time.
If you can’t stand the noisy environment of public transportation I recommend the following two remedies; (1) don’t ride public transit, and (2) wear ear plugs.

[SouthernRailway]

People will be people, and all of us misbehave most of the time.
If you can’t stand the noisy environment of public transportation I recommend the following two remedies; (1) don’t ride public transit, and (2) wear ear plugs.

Nope.

I was wearing both earplugs and Bose Quiet Comfort headphones today.

Everyone on in the car was very well-mannered except those two groups. It's up to them to behave, not the rest of us to reorient our lives in ways so that their misbehavior can continue.

If those groups hadn't been in seats facing each other, they wouldn't have been nearly as loud.

If they want to be loud, I suggest that one car per train be set aside as the "Community Car", with all seats facing each other. Loudmouths can go there.

[Triaxle]

People will be people, and all of us misbehave most of the time.
If you can’t stand the noisy environment of public transportation I recommend the following two remedies; (1) don’t ride public transit, and (2) wear ear plugs.

Respectfully, I believe that is a flip and dismissive response to a real problem. On a commuter rail line where you and other passengers are in the same place for at least fifteen minutes, often over an hours, people issuing profanities and blasting their portable devices is like an instigation to fight.

[electricron]

People will be people, and all of us misbehave most of the time.
If you can’t stand the noisy environment of public transportation I recommend the following two remedies; (1) don’t ride public transit, and (2) wear ear plugs.

Respectfully, I believe that is a flip and dismissive response to a real problem. On a commuter rail line where you and other passengers are in the same place for at least fifteen minutes, often over an hours, people issuing profanities and blasting their portable devices is like an instigation to fight.

So what is your solution, arrest everyone talking on a train? Who’s going to arrest them? Who’s standard of quietness will you use? If not arresting them, is your solution ticketing them? Who’s going to issue the tickets? Which court will enforce the tickets? What will you do if they don’t pay the fines? If not arresting or ticketing them, is your solution kicking them off the train? Who is going to kick them off the train? How are you going to prevent them being just as noisy on the very next train?

There are transit systems, including Amtrak by the way, that sets one car aside for being the quiet car, with the rest of the train allowing noisy passengers. No one does it the other way around as you propose.

[SouthernRailway]

So what is your solution, arrest everyone talking on a train?

My solution to the small minority of passengers on trains who misbehave is in the fourth paragraph of the original post.

[umtrr-author]

People will be people, and all of us misbehave most of the time.

There is a presumption that "all of us" (a statistically unprovable statement) are entitled to misbehave "most of the time" (another statistically unprovable statement).

Are there not "codes of conduct" on mass transit? If so, I guess "all of us" simply feel we can flaunt them at any time for any reason?

[electricron]

People will be people, and all of us misbehave most of the time.

There is a presumption that "all of us" (a statistically unprovable statement) are entitled to misbehave "most of the time" (another statistically unprovable statement).

Are there not "codes of conduct" on mass transit? If so, I guess "all of us" simply feel we can flaunt them at any time for any reason?

I’m not aware of one code of conduct requiring absolute silence in all other cars than the posted quite car, and even then it allows talking.
If you expect absolute silence and privacy you should commute in your own private car and not take public transit.

[SouthernRailway]

People will be people, and all of us misbehave most of the time.

There is a presumption that "all of us" (a statistically unprovable statement) are entitled to misbehave "most of the time" (another statistically unprovable statement).

Are there not "codes of conduct" on mass transit? If so, I guess "all of us" simply feel we can flaunt them at any time for any reason?

I’m not aware of one code of conduct requiring absolute silence in all other cars than the posted quite car, and even then it allows talking.
If you expect absolute silence and privacy you should commute in your own private car and not take public transit.

Nobody I know of is asking for absolute silence, even in the quiet car.

Why are (1) screaming profanity and (2) loudly watching things on iPhones, without using headphones and with the volume turned way up, acceptable to you on public transportation?

Both are prohibited by Metro-North’s code of conduct:

http://web.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm#disorderly" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mtuandrew]

This sounds to me like an enforcement problem, a “get the youth off my lawn” problem, or a “people of New York” problem, not a facing-seats problem. Late trains probably ought to have an MTA police officer riding for crowd control, prevention of public consumption, and harassment prevention.

A Community Car isn’t a bad idea, though goodness knows there would be zero leg room in a commuter railcar.

[electricron]

Nobody I know of is asking for absolute silence, even in the quiet car.

Why are (1) screaming profanity and (2) loudly watching things on iPhones, without using headphones and with the volume turned way up, acceptable to you on public transportation?

Both are prohibited by Metro-North’s code of conduct:

http://web.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm#disorderly" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But talking to others fairly loudly in a conversation about the weather or plans for the party tonight, isn’t against the code - the main reason why someone proposed eliminating facing seating. Some people are hard of hearing and speak loudly all the time anyways, and certainly the train’s background noises doesn’t help in this situation even with those with normal hearing.
The MTA code enforcement is relying upon NYC police. It’s impossible to have police in every car on every train.

[SouthernRailway]

Nobody I know of is asking for absolute silence, even in the quiet car.

Why are (1) screaming profanity and (2) loudly watching things on iPhones, without using headphones and with the volume turned way up, acceptable to you on public transportation?

Both are prohibited by Metro-North’s code of conduct:

http://web.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm#disorderly" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But talking to others fairly loudly in a conversation about the weather or plans for the party tonight, isn’t against the code - the main reason why someone proposed eliminating facing seating. Some people are hard of hearing and speak loudly all the time anyways, and certainly the train’s background noises doesn’t help in this situation even with those with normal hearing.
The MTA code enforcement is relying upon NYC police. It’s impossible to have police in every car on every train.

No, I was the one who proposed this. Fairly loud conversations are tolerable. I proposed eliminating facing seats to help avoid the two bad groups that I described.

[dowlingm]

It isn’t necessary to police every car, just for there to be sufficiently regular checks that people who misbehave know there is a decent chance of being caught. Unfortunately for many people the presence of a quiet car is deemed explicit license to be obnoxiously loud elsewhere. When we take public transit and therefore pool our personal space, especially rail where stops are infrequently spaces and opportunities to move away limited, the reaction to those who cannot behave in a reasonable manner should be draconian.

[Kurt]

Eliminating seats facing each other will not eliminate the problem. Even when they sit it the normal 3 across/2 across groups like that will continue to be loud if they are traveling in groups of more than 5. they will yell across multiple seats to talk to each other.