In the Denver RTD thread, the discussion of one-man crews came up. Let's talk - is it safe? Is it safe enough?
Context posts:
Context posts:
BlendedBreak wrote:RTD is not safe.
They do not employ conductors.
They choose to be cheap, and therefore will run into problems they could never imagine.
Without a Conductor who understands how air brakes work, how do you complete a brake test?
deathtopumpkins wrote:Hopefully the engineer understands the air brakes, since he'll be the one using them!
Are you saying that RTD is employing one-man crews on the A line? Because I thought federal regulations required two-man crews, so I'm curious how they're skirting that requirement, considering that the A line is definitely connected to the national rail system, and shares tracks with Amtrak at Union Station.
BlendedBreak wrote:So if the engineer is supposed to apply the brakes-you want him to get off the equipment,walk around it to make sure the brakes appear to be applied, and check for pressure irregularity at the same time?
When the equipment starts its inevitable roll and the doors close (Inertia sensors), who is going to stop the runaway train?
Whenever the brakes are released someone needs to be in the seat.
RTD is skirting regulations.
It is a one man crew for sure.
RTD plans to run this operation like a light rail system. My guess is in the very near future once the government becomes wise to the situation-RTD will have to shut down for a number of days as jobs are created to comply with regulation. Its going to be messy.
deathtopumpkins wrote:I'm sure RTD is not skirting regulations. That would be too risky. I can't imagine a major transit agency blatantly ignoring something like that. And I'm sure if that were the case, the FRA would be aware already and would not have allowed them to commence operations.
BlendedBreak wrote:Of course you are.
Every railroad that has had preventable accidents in the past few years was skirting regulation.
RTD and DTP/DTO is no different.
bdawe wrote:Surely you can forgive us for being skeptical of claims that RTD is flagrantly violating Federal rules on their first days of operation
But, if they have, in fact, figured out how to join the 20th Century with respect to regional rail, I applaud them.
electricron wrote:I don't understand why the person outside walking around the train checking the brakes has to be assigned to the train? Couldn't that qualified person be assigned to the two terminus stations instead, helping the engineer in the new active cab check the brakes for every train? Since the engineer has to walk the train anyways switching cabs, couldn't they rotate engineers, with the new engineer climbing into the new cab while the old engineer walks the train, or vice versa, then takes a break and then becomes the new engineer on the next train?
For example, for ten trains in service, there's twelve qualified personnel for performing brake checks (10 on the trains and 2 at the end stations) vs twenty (2 on 10 trains), therefore eight less personnel required to perform these tests.
I'll admit I am not aware exactly the operating procedure, but even a lay person like me can see ways to have qualified personnel make the necessary break checks without having two people assigned to ride the train all the way over the route.
mtuandrew wrote:So far, there's no FRA rule prohibiting one-man passenger rail operation that I can find on their website. I'm not saying it's a good thing, just that it doesn't exist.
AAR seems to like "no ruling" as the status quo (which, it's an industry mouthpiece, so that makes sense) as long as there's PTC in place.
BlendedBreak wrote:...
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 2&rgn=div5
...
For railroads that connect to the General Railroad System there are certain criteria that must be met.
...
No harm - no foul if they claim ignorance.
For all.Conductor Certification Requirements.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c= ... 9.4.242_13
When this company has their first at-grade collision/fatality.
The Engineer will have to:
Report the event to a dispatcher.
If unable to reach the dispatcher provide flag protection for his train in both directions.
(when getting off the train he must provide safety protection to himself and cut HEP=Passengers in the dark-literally.)
(Also general liability for leaving operating cab after incident.)
Take a count of passengers onboard.
Take note of any passengers requiring assistance.
Go out and check the vehicle for fatality or injury.
Survey damage to railroad infrastructure.
Liaise with emergency services.
It is going to be a nightmare. But hey, i might be wrong.
bdawe wrote:I can sort-of understand the technicalities of railroad brakes and brake check rules, but what about the above scenario is so different from what light rail and subway motormen nearly everywhere and regional rail drivers all across the world beyond the US and Canada manage to make work?