Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many more

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lpetrich
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by lpetrich »

I went to maps.google.com and I measured the route and estimated the radius of curvature at the derailment spot. It was about 400 m (130 ft).

I then found the centrifugal acceleration. For 80 km/h, it was 1/8 g, while for 190 km/h, it was 0.7 g.

For flat track, the maximum safe height above the rail of the center of mass goes down from about 6 m to about 1 m:
Standard gauge: 5.7 m to 1.0 m
Iberian gauge: 6.6 m to 1.2 m

For track tilted for 1/8 g centrifugal acceleration, the maximum safe height goes up to 1.4 to 1.6 m for the two gauges.

25Hz
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by 25Hz »

Looking at that footage it seems the head end was equipped with a second, diesel, power car behind the electric power car (RENFE class 130 currently getting those), and the coaches just detach from the back of that nearing the apex of the curve. The track is a mess, catenary a mess, the wall is probably fine, not sure about other nearby structures as i cant see them in the video.

That CCTV might capture it on video to an extent but can you imagine the sound it made? :(

I got an email a minute ago and the 2 people i spoke of before canceled their plan to go observe the regional religious festival and instead went to Gibraltar monday morning for the week. *deep sigh of relief* They had plans to be on that train or one right before/after it originally.

I'm still in shock and numb about this because for a bit i thought my 2 travel buds were dead, so i'm sure in a few days i'll come to grips with the magnitude of this event. It really is truly horrific. It gives me flashbacks of the colgan air crash outside buffalo, of which i knew the cockpit crew.
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mtuandrew
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by mtuandrew »

CNN showed the security camera footage... wow. It certainly looks like the second car left the tracks first, before all hell really broke loose.

Apparently one American citizen (a woman from Arlington, VA) was killed, though her name wasn't released on the news coverage that I saw. At last count, I saw 78 killed, and it looks like the number is expected to rise. CNN interviewed a young man from Utah who survived the crash as well, and you should be able to find his account on major news networks. For our world visitors, are there any counts of victims from other countries?

25Hz
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by 25Hz »

mtuandrew wrote:CNN showed the security camera footage... wow. It certainly looks like the second car left the tracks first, before all hell really broke loose.

Apparently one American citizen (a woman from Arlington, VA) was killed, though her name wasn't released on the news coverage that I saw. At last count, I saw 78 killed, and it looks like the number is expected to rise. CNN interviewed a young man from Utah who survived the crash as well, and you should be able to find his account on major news networks. For our world visitors, are there any counts of victims from other countries?
UK for sure. Large brit expat population in spain + tourists, so not surprised.

I think the diesel power car (with its large steel prime mover, coolant, lubricating oil, and fuel) pulled the first coach off & the rest just followed due to the angle + speed. One coach from near the center of the train went up the embankment and i guess the other got busted open on the retaining wall.

As far as the cars keeping their shape during the crash, only the one that slammed head on into the retaining wall had any notable severe damage. If the cars were less capable of withstanding such a high speed derailment into a wall, the death toll would probably be much higher, over 100 for sure. I dont see any big intrusions or indentations or such, so that's good.

They really need to start putting enforced cab signaling in on these lines. First the VIA derailment by aldershot now this.

I have a slight notion that the engineer may have hit the emergency, but we'll have to wait for black box info i guess.
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David Benton
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by David Benton »

25Hz wrote:.

I have a slight notion that the engineer may have hit the emergency, but we'll have to wait for black box info i guess.
What gives you that slight notion ?.
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lpetrich
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by lpetrich »

Ourense_Entrada de Santiago_S-121 - YouTube - Cab-ride video

Train starts decelerating at 30:30 - 30:45, enters tunnel before accident site at 31:00. The train's deceleration is very noticeable when it exits. Accident site: 31:40 - 31:50.

Spain train crash: driver formally accused of reckless homicide | World news | guardian.co.uk
Adif, Spain's railway agency, confirmed that a high-tech automatic braking programme was installed on the track for most of the journey but stops just five kilometres (three miles) south of where the crash occurred.

From that point on the driver has sole control of the brakes.
So ERTMS territory ends about 5 km south of the accident site.
Gonzalo Ferre Moltó, the president of Adif, said the driver should have started slowing the train four kilometres before reaching a dangerous bend that train drivers had been told to respect.

"Four kilometres before the accident happened he already had warnings that he had to begin slowing his speed, because as soon as he exits the tunnel he needs to be travelling at 80kph," Ferre said.
So either the driver disregarded the signals or the signal transmission failed somewhere. The latter has a problem. Just before the tunnel before the curve, one can see lots of houses on the tunnel entrance's hillside. So it ought to be obvious that SdC is coming up.

Freddy
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by Freddy »

Engineer charged with 79 counts of negligent homicide. So say the Associated Press.

David Benton
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by David Benton »

lpetrich wrote:Ourense_Entrada de Santiago_S-121 - YouTube - Cab-ride video

Train starts decelerating at 30:30 - 30:45, enters tunnel before accident site at 31:00. The train's deceleration is very noticeable when it exits. Accident site: 31:40 - 31:50.
Tunnel-viaduct-tunnel.I think it would be pretty hard for the driver to argue he didn't know where he was.
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charlie6017
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by charlie6017 »

Train operator was "on the phone" when crash occurred. One further reason why I would love to
shove these cell phones where the sun doesn't shine!

Charlie

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ ... 0-15-22-22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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RSD15
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by RSD15 »

charlie6017 wrote:Train operator was "on the phone" when crash occurred. One further reason why I would love to
shove these cell phones where the sun doesn't shine!

Charlie

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ ... 0-15-22-22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Only this phone appears to have been the dispatcher or control center phone not a simple cell phone.
Charles

AEM7AC920
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by AEM7AC920 »

Yes you need to read the whole story to find out that he was on what seems to be a work related phone call if he was talking to a dispatcher about the trip... I'm now curious as to why the dispatcher didn't contact him over the radio and even more so if the rules allowed for the engineer to take the call while operating the train.
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David Benton
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by David Benton »

I would think it would be a radio telephone. Things getting a bit jumbled in the translation.
Probably bad timing, but i guess he always had the option not to take the call.
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DutchRailnut
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Re: Spanish train derails, killing dozens, injuring many mor

Post by DutchRailnut »

no it was GSM work phone, not train radio.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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