Railroad Forums 

  • In the Name of Foresight

  • General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

 #1082995  by 2nd trick op
 
Those of us who've been participants at this site for more than three years are genetrally aware of the changing nature of our subject mattter. The long-ranging discussion over the economics and feasibility of traditional, usually Long -Distance service gradually yielded to a surge of enthusiam for High Speed projects which were excpected to be agressively advocated with the arrival of a new Administration.

Over the past three years, we;ve learned that high hopes must often give way to the workings of realpolitik, and the limits imposed by a globalizing economy in which the United states is no longer either the sole dominant economic power nor the leader in passsenger-rail technology. The one-size-must-fit-all position advanced at the height of the HSR enthusiasm quickly wilted under the pressures of financial limits, politics-as-usual infighting, and NIMBYism.

Nevertheless, that same period saw some real progress in the one place that counts the most -- an effort to create a California supercorridor, and the planners have, in this writer's opinion, made the wise choice of upgrading an established service via means which will allow improvement, albeit marginal at first, within a relatively short lead time. Other corridors should be able to borrow from this strategy.

Finally, and most important, uncertainty over energy supplies continues to fester. As I write this, the price of a gallon of regular in my home town stands at $3.92, a figure second only to the speculative peak just nefore the economic meltdown of four years ago -- and at a time of year when fuel prices normally retrench. Furthermore, regardless of anyone's peronal opinion regarding the handling of the growing unrest in the Middle East, the volatility and uncertainty of the principal player in the petroleum economy continues to accelerate.

All the factors cited above argue in favor of a bipartisan effort toward expandng not start-from-scratch HSRs, nor Long-Distance services modeled on 1950's-style luxury, but upon the restoration of conventinal short- and intermediate-distance services to those areas, usually on the fringes of the urban corridors, where they existed prior to the complete ascendancy and domination of the auto-centric culture c.1960. The capacity is still there in most cases, and in those few where freight traffic conflicts exist, alternate routes for diverted freight can be revived. Resolving conflicts between multiple-state or local oerating authorities would also be a big plus, as would linking the traffic to a modest level of regional funding responsibility in return for the benefits.

Because despite the appearance of a culture of short-sight a depicted in the media, there are still more than a few people out there who recognize that the present gridlock can cost us all very dearly somewhere down the road -- or track.
Last edited by 2nd trick op on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:12 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 #1083135  by David Benton
 
A good summary , 2nd trick .
A quick note as at work , but i would say there is more than just a few people that realize this , I would say at least 50 % do , if not the majority .

for the hardcore car driver , i think transit will become like taxes , a necessary evil , but it gets everyone off my road .
 #1083190  by morris&essex4ever
 
Well, on the bright side, some lines are being improved to increase speeds and decrease trip times such as the Downeaster, Keystone, Vermonter, Chicago-St Louis, and Chicago-Detroit lines.
 #1083203  by David Benton
 
I think theyve actually done really well with the money avaliable . to clear up my earleir post i think more people will realise having rail passenger is a good thing . wether they actually use it though is another question .
 #1083254  by Alloy
 
All the factors cited above argue in favor of a bipartisan effort toward expandng not start-from-scratch HSRs, nor Long-Distance services modeled on 1950's-style luxury, but upon the restoration of conventinal short- and intermediate-distance services to those areas, usually on the fringes of the urban corridors, where they existed prior to the complete ascendancy and domination of the auto-centric culture c.1960. The capacity is still there in most cases, and in those few where freight traffic conflicts exist, alternate routes for diverted freight can be revived. Resolving conflicts between multiple-state or local oerating authorities would also be a big plus, as would linking the traffic to a modest level of regional funding responsibility in return for the benefits.
I appreciate your post, 2nd Trick Op. I'd like to think that your above paragraph is a realistic appraisal, but the part about freight conflicts might not be so easy to resolve. As far as the California supercorridor goes, the situation seems very touch-and-go to me right now. I live in one of the cities below San Francisco that the line will go through, and feelings run high here, both for and against. There doesn't seem to be a consensus, either here or at the state level.

I've been self-employed for 33 years, and have always needed trucks to carry around my equipment. This is the first time in all those years where gas prices are such that I can't afford to make certain trips anymore. So even if more space opens up on the freeways, it isn't going to help that situation.
 #1084046  by kaitoku
 
Agree with the OP's assessment. Certainly the situation will look better for "higher speed rail" should the incumbent be reelected this November. As for true HSR, don't know, but an administration supportive of passenger rail would certainly create a climate of less uncertainty for potential private investors.
 #1090677  by 2nd trick op
 
As i write this, the price of gasoline in California is flirting with $6/gal, although the media are, as always, doing their best to put their own spin on the issue. California remains the home of some of the most successful Amtrak expansion to date.

I do most of my social networking these days at a site called city-data.com, which caters to people who travel and/or move often. It gets more than its share of NIMBYs and over-sheltered young suburbanites looking for what they like to call "Mayberry towns", I tried to start a serious discussion on the infrastructure issue about a month ago in a section called Great Debates -- and got absolutely no interest, but a post from a younger member with too much enthusiasm for bicycles started a firestorm -- 750+ posts and still flaming!

http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics ... lture.html

The point I want to raise here is that the nation is seriously in need of an overhaul of its entire surface transportation system -- freight as well as passenger, and while the free interplay of supply and demand can address almost all of it, the need to involve multiple states causes a problem in a number of regions, and Amtrak may have finally stumbled upon a role to play in dealing with them.

This writer can see a unique parallel here between President Madison's veto, in 1816, of a bill for "internal improvements" on Constitutional grounds, and the present impasse. That veto sent the issue back to the states and spawned the construction of the Erie Canal -- the first great step in the development of the American infrastructure. Perhaps it's time for a very careful adjustment in another direction.
 #1091214  by neroden
 
[quote="David Benton"]A good summary , 2nd trick .
A quick note as at work , but i would say there is more than just a few people that realize this , I would say at least 50 % do , if not the majority . [./quote]
I agree; but trouble lies in the fact that with gerrymandering, more than 50% of the population may be needed in order to have the necessary 51% in the legislature.
 #1098665  by 2nd trick op
 
As we've pointed out before, the continued gridlock and polarization in American politics is another sign that it just might be time "to re-write the rulebook", and to this writer, it doesn't seem as hopeless a task as was once the case. The workings of realpolitk can sometimes lead to some strange alliances.

Two of our "recent" Presidents, Clinton and Reagan, were noted for their skills as communicators rather than strict adherence to ideology, and the House of Representatives, with its larger membership and greater adaptability to swings in thinking within individual districts, can proably be brought on board --- that leaves only the Senate.

The six New England and five Middle Atlantic states all have some exposure to the feasibility of Amtrak service, albeit in only part of most of them; ditto for all three West Coast states. Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Indiana all have regions which could likewise be better served by re-orientation of Amtrak toward breaking the "political roadblock" that sometimes shows up at state boundaries.

That makes thirty-eight Senate seats -- thirteen to go. Florida is likely to experience the most prominent pressure from an aging population, and Virginia/North Carolina have shown a pattern of rail-friendly behavior for a number of years. And the only rail operation in Alaska is de facto Federalized. What would be needed beyond that would be some event that would demonstrate the workability, and adaptability of Amtrak service after a major restructuing -- and not one "corrupted" by an overly-zealous component of the electorate wedded to either a costly hard-sell "remedy" or a blind fiscal agenda.

Our current President is "sympathetic" toward rail pssenger service, but not well-versed in the facts and limitations imposed by technology and operating practice. Mr. Romney is well-versed in the art of getting things done in supposedly "hostile" states like Masachusetts and Michigan. The suport of the Greens is a given, and a few of the Libertarians, "Paulites" and some of the Tea Party could be approached if some particularly entrenched and unpopular opposition, such as the public-employee unions, were goaded into a few sacrifices in reciprocity.

Admittedly, it's all very tenuous. But underlying global economic trends are beyond the direct reach of domestic political fiat. And we are being slowly pushed further into uncharted economic territory every day.