Washington to Baltimore: maglev or hyperloop?

[John_Perkowski]

I just rode on a TGV in France. Given this distance, are we discussing a nonstop run? Even a 286kmph TGV needs acceleration and deceleration distance. If there are stops, that will increase the transit time to the speed of current Amtrak.

It's about 40 mi / 60 km between DC and Balto. At 200 mph / 320 km/h, the travel time would be 11 minutes. By comparison:

• Amtrak: 30 - 40 min
• MARC: 40 - 60 min

So I think that it would be hard to justify such a maglev line.

The Hyperloop is essentially a maglev vactrain, and that's even worse.

[lpetrich]

It was hard for me to find numbers on acceleration of high-speed trains, but I've found TGV POS - Wikipedia -- its acceleration numbers have "citation needed" on them.

≥1.7 km/(h⋅s) (1.1 mph/s)(0–100 km/h (0–62 mph)),
0.35 km/(h⋅s) (0.22 mph/s) (at 320 km/h (199 mph)), from 0 to 320 km/h (0 to 199 mph) within 5 minutes 20 seconds and 18 km (11.2 mi

That's about 0.048 g or 1/20 g, where g is the acceleration of gravity on the Earth's surface.

To get to 300 km/h at 1.7 km/h/s, one needs 3 minutes, and a distance of 7.4 km. Since one must decelerate by that amount to stop, that means a combined distance of nearly 15 km. That's about 1/4 the Balto-DC distance, with an extra travel time of 3 minutes, about 1/4 of the travel time.

The math:

t = time, d = distance, v = velocity, a = acceleration
v = a*t
d = (1/2)*a*t^2

[STrRedWolf]

It's about 40 mi / 60 km between DC and Balto. At 200 mph / 320 km/h, the travel time would be 11 minutes. By comparison:

• Amtrak: 30 - 40 min
• MARC: 40 - 60 min

So I think that it would be hard to justify such a maglev line.

The Hyperloop is essentially a maglev vactrain, and that's even worse.

Hmmm... (mind the metric for a bit, I'll reconvert it back)

• 45 mph from 2nd street to almost the 9th street NE: 1.24 km
• 95 mph there to past Bladensberg Rd NE (US 1 Alt): 2.74 km
• 125 mph that point to Baltimore near Frederick Avenue: 53.19 km
• There's a mix that starts here but the average looks to be more 90 mph, from that street to West Baltimore: 2.1 km
• From here to...

Okay, lets switch over to the proposed alignment of the new tunnel. It's supposedly good for at least 70 mph but they're saying 100 mph. Lets assume the average along this roughly 2.7 mile (4.35 km) stretch is 70. OpenRailwayMap says the MAS on the eastern ("north") end is 30 mph, and we'll give some leeway on the other end at 110 mph since they're going to straighten things out around West Baltimore and rebuild the station there. We'll bump up speeds on the southern approach here as well, so:

• 45 mph from 2nd street to almost the 9th street NE: 1.24 km or 0.77 mi, or just over a minute.
• 95 mph there to past Bladensberg Rd NE (US 1 Alt): 2.74 km or 1.70 mi, or another minute.
• 125 mph that point to Baltimore and southern end of FD Tunnel: 55.29 km or 34.26 mi, or 16 and a half minutes.
• 70 mph on average to the CHARLES interlock: 4.35 km or 2.7 mi, or 2 and a third minutes.

So a non-stop Acela would take 22 minutes roughly to make a DC to Baltimore trip, with the new tunnel.

And they're claiming 11 minutes non-stop?

[lpetrich]

So a non-stop Acela would take 22 minutes roughly to make a DC to Baltimore trip, with the new tunnel.

And they're claiming 11 minutes non-stop?

That's my calculation for 200 mph / 320 km/h over all the line's length, with instantaneous acceleration.

[STrRedWolf]

So a non-stop Acela would take 22 minutes roughly to make a DC to Baltimore trip, with the new tunnel.

And they're claiming 11 minutes non-stop?

That's my calculation for 200 mph / 320 km/h over all the line's length, with instantaneous acceleration.

Lets see with some of the above work... 75% of the line at 200 mph would be 8.25 minutes, add another 5.5 for acceleration/decelleration on a linear scale... about 14 minutes.

14 vs 22... that's starting to put a lot of effort into little gain.

[John_Perkowski]

Admin note: Hyperloop One Inc has closed its doors. This topic is now moot.

Thread on Hyperloop one closing: hyperloop-inc-end-of-the-line-t176348.html

[Jeff Smith]

Still dead: TheBaynet.com

Not So Fast: Maryland High-Speed Train Project Hits Skids

ANNAPOLIS, Md. – One of the main selling points for constructing a $13 billion magnet-propelled train line between Washington, DC, and Baltimore is speed. Proponents envision levitating train cars going 300 mph and higher, reducing the travel time between the two cities to a mere 15 minutes.

But those go-fast ambitions have collided with the go-slow realities of acquiring state and federal permits. The mounting difficulties threaten to derail the high-profile project.

First came the Federal Railroad Administration’s decision in 2019 to pause the five-year, $28 million study of the project’s potential environmental impacts, citing the need for additional engineering and design details. After work on the study restarted, the FRA initiated a second pause in 2021 without finalizing a preferred route.
...

[gprimr1]

Keep it dead.

As a life long resident of Maryland, there's so many other things that would benefit Maryland more for the money spent.

Rail Service down Route 5 to Southern Maryland.

Rail Service down Route 4 to Solomon's Island

Rail Service between Frederick and Baltimore.

Rail Service to Annapolis.

Rail Service to Western Maryland (points beyond the current service.)

Rail Service to Ocean City and major Eastern Shore towns.

[scratchyX1]

Keep it dead.

As a life long resident of Maryland, there's so many other things that would benefit Maryland more for the money spent.

Rail Service down Route 5 to Southern Maryland.
Like the MTA plan for service from bowie 15 year ago, and needed even more now.
They need both SMART light rail to the greenline, and Regional rail to laplata.

Rail Service between Frederick and Baltimore.
I honestly don't know how much of a demand there is for rail.
The old main line MAS is in no way competitive with US70.
Now, hourly bus service, yes.

Rail Service to Annapolis.
Definitely, in the median of Route 2, instead of the old B&A row.
Possibly express trains that use the light rail route to glen burnie.

Rail Service to Western Maryland (points beyond the current service.)
Agreed, in summer time, trains that connect with vans to bearkly springs would be full.

Rail Service to Ocean City and major Eastern Shore towns.
I think if the Delaware Central got brought up to MAS of 79 Mph, trains would be competitive with driving.
I know the ROW for the ocean city and western is still intact.

[lpetrich]

Let's look at the numbers:

• Proposed maglev: 15 min
• Amtrak: 35 min (one stop)
• MARC 1 hour (7 stops)

Here are things that may be more worth doing with that money:

• Build the Baltimore east-west Red Line (Baltimore) - Wikipedia
• Add more trains to MARC's schedules, like with diesel multiple units.
• Add more MARC lines?

[gprimr1]

I'll add one to that.

Extend the Metro out to White Marsh. Right now the Baltimore metro feels like the oddball out of transit, but it was extended to white marsh, it would form a U shape, kind of like the WMATA Red Line.

[STrRedWolf]

I'll add one to that.

Extend the Metro out to White Marsh. Right now the Baltimore metro feels like the oddball out of transit, but it was extended to white marsh, it would form a U shape, kind of like the WMATA Red Line.

How about just fully building it out in the first place? It was designed nicely and would of fit.

[lpetrich]

Building the Baltimore Subway out to White Marsh would produce more of a shallow V, with an angle of 90d at downtown Baltimore.

That's the sort of plan that I've found in places like Balt Rail Report6a.qxd - Baltimore Region Rail Plan Report.pdf - March 2002

The WMATA Red Line is more of a hairpin curve, with its two ends being parallel outside of downtown DC. Washington Metro Map to Scale :: Behance

[scratchyX1]

I'll add one to that.

Extend the Metro out to White Marsh. Right now the Baltimore metro feels like the oddball out of transit, but it was extended to white marsh, it would form a U shape, kind of like the WMATA Red Line.

How about just fully building it out in the first place? It was designed nicely and would of fit.

Without even clicking, I assumed this is the roads to future map,
And I agree.
I think the ROW on the east side got used for a powerline.