Plug Door Boxcars (was "Hobos")

[Littleredcaboose]

Cming home from work I camr across a young couple from Baton Rouge LA with two dogs. They had been on the SENE on the way to Portland ME and it had been set off in Lowell MA. They complained that they had been stuck in Lowell for two days and nothing had been done to the train. They could be either--
1. The front part of the train could have been broken off and continued to Portland leaving the rear behind
2. Pan Am has no crews for the train
3. The section that they are on is heading to Nashua and waiting for a engine
I advised them to get some chow at the soup kitchen here and the way Pan Am runs they be better off taking the T to Newburyport and Hithching from there. They might get to Portland faster by walking!

[Otto Vondrak]

An interesting story, but I rather we didn't promote hitchhiking or train-hopping on these forums.

[HoggerKen]

Must have been the leftovers from the Hobo Convention in Britt. Really greasy crowd. We kept them off our trains at least.

[Noel Weaver]

These kind of people are bad news overall and efforts need to be made to discourage this practice. It is risky for both the
"hobos" and for the people working the trains.
Not only did I not allow them to ride on the locomotives but if I spotted any on any train, I always reported it. More than
once I had the railroad police remove them from the locomotives at Buffalo before leaving town. The railroad police was
almost always on the scene when we were getting ready to leave town.
Noel Weaver

[Littleredcaboose]

I am more intrested in the trains then the hobos....It seems that Pan Am leaves loaded trains with customers freight sitting idle for days. If the hobos are getting impaitent then what about the customers waiting for there freight to come into there loading docks? At least the hobos can switch transporation modes....I dont think the custumer can order Guilford to take the boxcar to the nearest siding and transload onto a truck and shortly then rip up there contract with the railroad after that!

[mick]

Most of the cars at Lowell were empty boxcars going back to the mills in Maine. Did you ever think that the mills may not need them right away?
The mills order a certain number of empty boxcars every day. If there are excess cars "in the pipeline", they may sit for awhile before they go east, or there may not be room for them at Rigby.

Also, some of the cars there are Bad Ordered because the nitwit "hobos" open the plug doors, which happens very often around Lowell. They have to wait for a Carman to close them, because the crews are not allowed to.

There is no such thing as a hobo. Only Criminal Tresspassers who endanger themselves, the public, and the railroad employees.

[HoggerKen]

I dont think the custumer can order Guilford to take the boxcar to the nearest siding and transload onto a truck and shortly then rip up there contract with the railroad after that!

Actually if there are documentable service issues, if the customer can afford the lawyer, the STB can order changes in service under Federal rules. And Guilford would have no choice in the matter. I have seen cases where it went on for so long, the majority customer was able to purchase the line under OFA provisions, by order of the STB. Yes, the case went on for years, and yes, the original owning road played every delaying trick in the book, but soon the Board got fed up, and took them down a few notches.

Moral of the story, don't mess with common carriage rules, it may come back to bite you.

[NV290]

Also, some of the cars there are Bad Ordered because the nitwit "hobos" open the plug doors, which happens very often around Lowell. They have to wait for a Carman to close them, because the crews are not allowed to.

There is no rule on PAR that forbids T&E crews from closing plug doors. They can close as many as they like if they choose to do so. The only restriction on T&E crews closing plug doors is they are not to attempt to close a plug door that has been chocked and strapped per a bulletin PAR issued awhile back after an employee was hurt trying to do so.

And as far as Hobo's and plug doors, it's a non issue. The people opening plug doors are not looking for a place to ride, they are looking for things to steal. I have never seen nor heard of a hobo trying to ride in a plug door car. They ride on covered hopper ends, Well cars and open box cars. Even back in the day when i was a Conductor, i never walked back to close a plug door and found riders. I have found plenty of them on the above cars mentioned.

As for the two "hobo's" in question. I actually know who they are. They have permits for the two dogs as service dogs and can actually ride with them on a passenger train legally. That is how they got to Lowell from Boston. I know who they are because i ran into them in Worcester last week. They told me where they were headed. So based on the description, that is them.

[MEC407]

Were they disabled in any way? (The part about the service dogs makes me wonder.) If so, they could have saved a lot of time/money/hassle by simply taking the Downeaster to Portland... riders with disabilities get a whopping 50% discount. Sure as hell beats risking life and limb on a freight train, not to mention that it would be about 10000x faster.

[mick]

There is no rule on PAR that forbids T&E crews from closing plug doors. They can close as many as they like if they choose to do so. The only restriction on T&E crews closing plug doors is they are not to attempt to close a plug door that has been chocked and strapped per a bulletin PAR issued awhile back after an employee was hurt trying to do so.

I think your'e wrong on that one,(God forbid) the bulletin says employees must not attempt to close an open plug door, period. And why would you take the chance? If you get hurt trying to close one, they will say it's your fault. Anyway, unless the car is a brand new F-BOX, you can't close them anyway, they get stuck. And I have seen people dumb enough to open a plug door and hop a ride, because there is a latch to keep the door from slamming shut on them. They don't realize that an open plug door is a defect.

[HoggerKen]

I agree, GCOR provides that one may not move a car with a defective/open plug door, and TEY are not allowed to close a plug door.

Many employees still enable these hobos, for what ever reason. So does events like the Hobo Convention.

[NV290]

I think your'e wrong on that one,(God forbid) the bulletin says employees must not attempt to close an open plug door, period. And why would you take the chance? If you get hurt trying to close one, they will say it's your fault..

No, it specifically mentions plug doors that have been blocked or strapped. It stemmed from an accident in 07' where a conductor in Lawrence was hit by a spinning plug door handle and fractured his hand. The issue was raised whether a Conductor was alowed to close a plug door and the answer was "Yes". With the exception of doors that have been blocked with wedges and secured with steel strapping. As with any car door, if it cannot be easily closed without assistance, then a Conductor can simply shop the car and set it out for repair. But no rule forbids him or her from trying. I even clarified this with the PAR rules instructor after having a conversation with a PAR Conductor at New Bond st.

Anyway, unless the car is a brand new F-BOX, you can't close them anyway, they get stuck.

I have closed plenty of types of plug doors. There is nothing about an FBOX that makes the doors easier to close.

And I have seen people dumb enough to open a plug door and hop a ride, because there is a latch to keep the door from slamming shut on them. They don't realize that an open plug door is a defect.

There is a latch to keep sliding doors from slamming shut too on most normal boxcars as well. It's not something unique to plug doors. And the hobo trick is to jam a spike under the door or block it with a piece of wood to hold it open halfway.

Expierienced hobo's know a surprising amount of info on railroad operations.

[NV290]

I just double checked the rule, it's PAR rule: P94A Issued via a bulletin a few years ago.

Here it is:

Unless supervised by mechanical dept forces, transportation and engineering dept employees must not attempt to operate plug doors if the doors are chocked with blocking or strapped with banding.

The rule does NOT say those employees cannot attempt to close a plug door that appears normal.

[HoggerKen]

Other roads take exception to that, since many injuries have resulted, including being crushed by a door falling off.

81.15:
Train service employees should not attempt to close plug or swinging type doors. If a plug door is found open enroute, car may continue in the train to the next location where mechanical forces are available to close the door.

I have seen my share of doors fallen off in the ditches, and causing yard derailments. Pan Am must be a very wealthy road, since payouts under FELA for such an incident in the past has proven to be quite high.

[mick]

I just double checked the rule, it's PAR rule: P94A Issued via a bulletin a few years ago.

Here it is:

Unless supervised by mechanical dept forces, transportation and engineering dept employees must not attempt to operate plug doors if the doors are chocked with blocking or strapped with banding.

The rule does NOT say those employees cannot attempt to close a plug door that appears normal.

Dadgum it, your'e right Commander. That is an old bulletin, no longer required to be carried. But the point is, open plug doors are a problem around Lowell because of Trespassers. Train crews have been cautioned by our Orginizations against trying to close them, because any injuries incurred may be blamed on them.