Binders for employee timetables

[Steamboat Willie]

Noel, I agree with you that if you have one of the best working contracts and pay, which requires you to carry what it is expected of you and you're complaining about it, theres a problem. Where I do disagree is that if you can simplify what you carry, why not? The operation manual binder is quite odd and anyone who finds a way to store their necessary paperwork other than what they issued you more power to you.

How things are done don't even compare with how things once were and we all including yourself have to accept the fact that times change. I think a lot of people don't realize how good they have it currently verses what it used to be like.

I've seen my peers with simplified run books with them and I think that's a great deal since especially for C&T, the run book is enormous. And if you have to make a move quick and are not near a run book, well you have one that's shrunk to size to fit in your bag.

Not to get too OT, but I am very fond with how the timetables are brochure style verses what the Long Island has to lug around with them. Every line in each direction with week day and weekend schedules are 1 folder each respectively. I'm very fond of that.

[NV290]

Noel, I agree with you that if you have one of the best working contracts and pay, which requires you to carry what it is expected of you and you're complaining about it, theres a problem.

Not sure if that is directed at me. But if it is, once again, let me clarify, I DO NOT WORK FOR METRO NORTH. How great there contract is and how much money they make has no impact on me or my question. Good for Metro North employees. You could not pay me enough to be a horizontal elevator operator who sits in a closet. Just my opinion. This is about their rule book, nothing more.

Secondly, i am NOT complaining about having to carry multiple rule books. All i was asking was does anybody know of a binder that is slightly thinner then the original to make more room in my bag. THATS IT. How people have turned that simple question into implying i am whining about having to carry too many rule books is not only completley wrong, but it points out that people are simply not even reading the question.

[Steamboat Willie]

NV290, my post wasn't directed towards you but your latest contribution warrants this responce. I would be very careful at the insults you just gave at people in train service. You're criticizing a craft you do not partake in and to top it off, a company you do not work for. That's all I am going to say about that.

Bottom line is the company compensates very well and they don't ask much of you other than to do your job. Part of that is lugging around the small binder filled with the rules. If you're complaining about that, you have a problem. People have shrunk their rule books and there are a handful of people who don't even carry them at all. People who do that are at risk for serious dicipline.

This is coming from a person who does work for the company.

[NV290]

NV290, my post wasn't directed towards you but your latest contribution warrants this responce. I would be very careful at the insults you just gave at people in train service. You're criticizing a craft you do not partake in.

What do you mean "a craft i do not partake in"? I have been an Engineer and BLE member for well over 10 years. I am most certainly in that craft. And if you re-read my comment above, i said "Just my opinion" after it. We are all entitled to give that. Do you know how many passenger service engineers think working freight sucks? I hear it all the time from them and they are more then welcome to make that claim. I work with ex-passenger engineers who tell me all the time that passenger service is better. That is their opinion that they are free to make it. Just as i am free to state my opinion on the subject. I have rode enough MNRR head ends while qualifying to make that claim. It's not for me. I would go insane running those trains. Exact same equipment, almost exact same number of cars, exact same stops, day after day. Its not for me. That is just my opinion. That opinion does not in any way imply that i look down upon, think less of or dislike any people who love that job. If they love it, great. I don't. If they think running 100+ car, 10,000+ ton freights with all different types of loco's and having super long runs with crazy schedules is boring and annoying, fine. They can say that. I am freinds with a few MNRR Engineers and i make my opinion known. Not one of them took offense to that. It's just an opinion. They think im crazy to like working a job that has so many overnights and long hours. Oh well.

Just like sports rivalries, Chevy vs Ford, etc, etc. People can disagree on what they like and get along just fine. Just because you have a job that i would hate should not offend you.

and to top it off, a company you do not work for. That's all I am going to say about that.

Yes, for the third time, i dont work them, i am not trying to hide that fact. And once again, just because i don't work for Metro North does not mean that i am not allowed to have an opinion of the job. Just like you may have coworkers who hate the Yankees or Red Sox, etc yet they are not on either team. Do you have an issue with any person who has an opinion on any job they don't do themselves?

Bottom line is the company compensates very well and they don't ask much of you other than to do your job. Part of that is lugging around the small binder filled with the rules. If you're complaining about that, you have a problem. People have shrunk their rule books and there are a handful of people who don't even carry them at all. People who do that are at risk for serious dicipline.

Here we go again. Once again, insinuating that somewhere in this thread i was "complaining" about having to carry the rule book? I never said that. For the TENTH FRIGGIN TIME, all i asked was "does a smaller binder exsist to make more room in my bag". THATS IT. I never said....

I dont want to carry this book
This book Sucks
Waaaahhhhh! i have too many books!!!
This book is too heavy!

The binder is simply was thicker then it needs to be. I want a thinner binder to free up space for the rest of my books. I carry probably 5 times the amount of books you do and im not complaining about it.

[Steamboat Willie]

NV290, thanks for dissecting my last post.

I only disagreed with how you portrayed people who are in blue. You know, the "horizontal elevator operator who sits in a closet" you refer to. A lot of people take pride in what they do and are grateful for where they are, especially in the current times. With that comes your occasional few bad apples who give the rest a bad reputation.

Your last post was rather emotional but seeing beyond that, my post wasn't geared towards you rather the people who were knocking the size of the rule book and where people like Mr. Weaver come in and remind us that at other railroads and railroads of yesteryear had you responsible for carrying more things.

With your 10yrs on the railroad I would expect more professionalism towards your brothers who work for the RR with your past remarks. I give it to guys in freight for doing what they do. Freight and passenger have their own unique challenges. C&E are jointly responsible for the job, end of story.

Happy Independence Day.

[NV290]

I only disagreed with how you portrayed people who are in blue. You know, the "horizontal elevator operator who sits in a closet" you refer to. A lot of people take pride in what they do and are grateful for where they are, especially in the current times. With that comes your occasional few bad apples who give the rest a bad reputation.

Are was talking about the same thing? What do you mean "People in Blue"? Seriously, i am confused by that statement? When i think of "People in blue" i am thinking police officers. I am not talking about that, is that what you thought i meant? I was talking about Metro North Engineers, in reference to the small operators "closet". And they don't wear blue. They wear street clothes, just like me. So that is what i am confused about?

Your last post was rather emotional but seeing beyond that, my post wasn't geared towards you rather the people who were knocking the size of the rule book and where people like Mr. Weaver come in and remind us that at other railroads and railroads of yesteryear had you responsible for carrying more things.

You keep insisting that i am complaining about the number of rule books i carry. Ill say it again, i never complained about it. Your imagining things.

With your 10yrs on the railroad I would expect more professionalism towards your brothers who work for the RR with your past remarks.

Again, i was not being unprofessional, i was simply stating my opinion. And while this is the internet and it's hard to see sarcasm, my opinion was not meant to be taken as insult. It's a joke. You don't ever bust balls of conductors and vice versa about each others jobs? It's relentless over here. But we all know that it's never personal. It's simply joking around. Ill have conductors sleep an entire trip, read a magazine, whatever. And ill goof on them about how lazy they are, but its joking around. Just like saying your a horizontal elevator operator in a closet. It's just my view of the job. Sorry if it offended you, that was not my intention. It was meant in a joking way.

I made about 6 head end trips not too long ago on the MBCR and just like on MNRR, i could not take the monatany of the job. I told the engineer and he totally understood. "It's not for everyone". And it truly is not.

I am glad i have a job and i am proud of what i do. And all of us railroaders should feel proud of what we do. We accomplish more then most people and get paid very well and have an enormous amount of responsibility in our hands. And while we are both engineers we both work in very different operating enviornments. And they both have very unique features. Both have good points and bad points. I like freight, you like commuter. My words regarding my opinion of what you do are simply that, words. Don't take them to heart. We are both in the same brotherhood. And we can all just agree to disagree.

[Noel Weaver]

I can't imagine a CSX engineer working in Worcester being qualified to work the territory involving Metro-North which is only
from New Haven west and there is not much work left in that territory either. Why would you want to bother with it?
So you work a job in that territory lets say a couple of times a year and they make a change or something, how are you able
to keep up with it? I wonder just how many trains you have operated on your own over Metro-North trackage? I can't imagine the railroad deadheading an engineer out of Worcester to Cedar Hill, Oak Point, Croton West Yard or Selkirk which
are the only terminals where work originates that CSX operates over Metro-North trackage.
When I moved up to Selkirk in 1987 for my last ten years, I reviewed the Metro-North territory for one year but then after
not running anything down there, I decided to let it go because the rare times that I might possibly get called to run
something in that territory were not worth the risk that I would forget something and get into trouble. If I were in your
shoes I would dump that territory and any other territory that you don't get a chance to operate over at least a few times in
the course of a year.
There is a big difference being qualified over a piece of railroad and really knowing that piece of railroad, believe me, I
know. As far as passenger or freight, both have their advantages and I have worked both through all of my railroad career
although my years with Metro-North were passenger, when I returned to Conrail in 1987, I felt right at home on freight
trains out of Selkirk. There are advantages and disadvantages to both and I don't need to go into that here.
Finally, I don't really think that this is a good place for a discussion about what you have to carry with you, you work for the
railroad and they have the right to tell you what you must do and what you must have in your possession when you are
working for and being paid by them.
Noel Weaver

[NV290]

I can't imagine a CSX engineer working in Worcester being qualified to work the territory involving Metro-North which is only from New Haven west and there is not much work left in that territory either. Why would you want to bother with it?

I got qualified there about 8 years ago and have kept my qualifications up since. I like to keep my options open. I am qualified in lots of places i dont work in every day. But i see no reason to give them up. The way things are with them cutting jobs it pays to be qualified in alot of places. I could be cut out of one place tommorow.

So you work a job in that territory lets say a couple of times a year and they make a change or something, how are you able to keep up with it? I wonder just how many trains you have operated on your own over Metro-North trackage?

I keep up with it by paying attention to bulletins and notices, keeping in touch with people who work down there regulary and anytime i ride Amtrak on the corridor, i get a head end pass to see the territory first hand. In 8 years i have operated i would guess around a hundred trains over some part of Metro North. I never really thought about.

I can't imagine the railroad deadheading an engineer out of Worcester to Cedar Hill, Oak Point, Croton West Yard or Selkirk which are the only terminals where work originates that CSX operates over Metro-North trackage.

Your right to not imagine it, they dont. I dont deadhead out to work those jobs. I simply bump the jobs in those areas or work spare.

When I moved up to Selkirk in 1987 for my last ten years, I reviewed the Metro-North territory for one year but then after not running anything down there, I decided to let it go because the rare times that I might possibly get called to run something in that territory were not worth the risk that I would forget something and get into trouble. If I were in your shoes I would dump that territory and any other territory that you don't get a chance to operate over at least a few times in the course of a year.

Some people would feel that way. I dont. Everyone is different. Metro North is a very straight forward layout. The signal system is simple, the speeds are simple and the rules are well thought out and make sense. So it's really not a hard piece of railroad to know and maintain in memory. If i thought i did not know it well enough, i would not work those jobs. But it's not an issue for me. I know guys who are like walking encylopedias of places they have not seen in years. Others forget stuff after a month.

Finally, I don't really think that this is a good place for a discussion about what you have to carry with you, you work for the railroad and they have the right to tell you what you must do and what you must have in your possession when you are working for and being paid by them.
Noel Weaver

I did not start that discussion. If you read the thread from the start, you were the person who initially brought up how many rule books people had to carry and then Someone asked me what books i had to carry and where i worked. So i answered it.

This threads primary purpose was to find a supplier for a thinner binder with 7 rings untill you derailed it.

I am more then happy to get it back on topic and try and find the answer i am looking for about the binder source. So long as nobody wants to continually accuse me of making statements that are false, i will happily stay on topic.

[Noel Weaver]

Don't get too over confident about running a freight train in Metro-North territory. Years ago when we actually had many
through freight trains over that territory on a daily basis, there were plenty of places where if you did the wrong thing you
could end up with your train in two pieces and this is not good on a railroad of that nature. I suspect it hasn't changed, the
dips and rises are still there and with the reduced operating speeds, it is even worse than when we could just wheel them at
50 most of the way.
I don't think I will discuss this item any further, have a good one.
Noel Weaver

[RearOfSignal]

Hey guys, I was away for a while. So, what did I miss?

[NV290]

Problem solved!

Staples sells a 7" 3 ring binder that holds the complete Metro North Employee manual PERFECTLY. There is still room for maybe another 1/4" of paper. But the beauty is the binder is 1.5" THINNER and with 4 less rings, it's A LOT lighter. 1.5" may not seem like much, but my bag is now so much less cramped and lighter.

The only thing about the binder is it's a 3 ring binder vs the Metro North 7 ring binder, but the 3 rings line up perfectly with the pages. The 7 rings was total overkill anyhow.

[Cowford]

NV290, glad to hear you were able to resolve the binder issue. Ok, I almost feel like I should preface this by a, "not that it would do any good," but... did you ever discuss this with management, or even a suggestion to Metro North? Sounds like, besides being overly large, they are wasting money on a custom binder... sounds like the carriers should get together and create a standard-sized rule book.

To everyone else out there: Please, for the love of all that is holy, do not flame me for this question/suggestion. This string is way over the top as it is!!!

[NV290]

NV290, glad to hear you were able to resolve the binder issue. Ok, I almost feel like I should preface this by a, "not that it would do any good," but... did you ever discuss this with management, or even a suggestion to Metro North? Sounds like, besides being overly large, they are wasting money on a custom binder... sounds like the carriers should get together and create a standard-sized rule book.

To everyone else out there: Please, for the love of all that is holy, do not flame me for this question/suggestion. This string is way over the top as it is!!!

Being as i dont work for MN, i really don't have the ability to see management there often. I will most certainly mention it to the road foreman next time i see him though.

The Metro North Issue binder is very nice. It's sturdy and well made, has nice screen printing on it and has a super heavy duty 7 ring design. But it is complete and total overkill. This new binder i bought does everything the issue binder does but no fancy printing on on, 1.5" thinner and i would say HALF the weight. And while it has 3 rings vs 7, i honestly cannot imagine a situation where those extra 4 rings would be the difference between you handbook being runined and not. And it's not like if something happened to your book you would have to buy a new one?. They are free.

Metro North im sure has been buying them in mass quantities for a while and probably gets them very cheap. Maybe not for $7.00, but who knows.

[Cowford]

One of these days, you'll just have to carry around some version of the Kindle, all 1/2" of it!

[NV290]

One of these days, you'll just have to carry around some version of the Kindle, all 1/2" of it!

There is a guy who has programs for Palm type devices, GCOR and UP rulebooks and timetables. So if you work for UP and electronic devices were not now banned, you could have almost all your books in a tiny device.