BANNER TEST!

[CSX-COAL HAULER]

haha-lol Thats good about the cussing! UPPR ENGINEER stated that he belives that you can big hole them to stop on the UP. How about any other railroad---you guys get to bust them to stop? On CSX-you bust them on a test=== your fired!

[UPRR engineer]

Im pretty sure it is like that here on the UP. I seem to remember my hoghead instructor saying that as long as you stopped short of... you were fine. The manager performing the test might not like it, but at least your not fired.

One of my buddies out of Salt Lake dumped the air on a stop test. Manager didnt like it, but he passed. That was a good eight years ago.

Would they rather have you run the block and or crash? Id like to hear what the FRA has to say about getting disciplined for using everything you had to try to stop.

[UPRR engineer]

Restricted speed, give them WHAT THEY WANT, RESTRICTED SPEED.
There is no acceptable excuse for a restricted speed violation.
Work safely!!!!!!!!!
Noel Weaver

Even in good weather i never touch 10 MPH when flagging blocks. I had some scary rides when i was a brakemen with some crappy hogheads. Thats the reason i took engine service, i knew i wasnt gonna get fired, hurt or killed from not being able to stop.

This is what i tell new guys, if the thought of dumping the air crosses your mind, DO IT.

[jz441]

Controlled stop. You big-hole it, you fail. You run over the banner...you fail and are taken out of service.

It's the same way on BNSF... You big-hole it, you fail. This is why I never run over 6 mph on restricting...

[slchub]

I e-mailed my ex-local chairman (UPRR) a scenario where you at 6.27 (restricted speed) and headed around a blind curve under an underpass east of Las Vegas (I-15 is the underpass and the train is headed eastbound on the approach to Dry Lake siding). I asked if you could big-hole it if you saw a flag. Here is what he said:

I would tend to think you would be in trouble for plugging it for the simple fact that it would look like you weren’t paying attention. I personally would not be going that fast around the corner and probably only doing 1 or 2 MPH.

Enjoy the day and watch out for snakes!

[CSX Conductor]

Along the same lines of the banners was the CSX Road Foreman who teamed up with the MBCR (Boston's Commuter Rail) Road Foreman and dropped lit fusees onto the tracks from an overhead bridge as one of our locals rounded the curve heading into the blinding sun with a Clear on it's cab signals. They didn't stop because one fusee had extinguished upon impact and never saw the 2nd one because it fell off to the side in the six foot........fortunately they didn't do reorimand the crew, also because an MBCR commuter set blew by going the other way.

[CSX-COAL HAULER]

What about this one----- I heard our Trainmaster pulled a good one. Where do they get these clowns? We had a train get permission by a red signal. It was daylight hours and it was on a very long and straight piece of track-you could see about 5000 to 6000 feet ahead. The train was running at restricted speed and was aproaching a large signal box that was located 15 feet from the track. When the train got about 300 feet from the signal box the goofy trainmaster stepped out between the railswith a red flag in his hand. I wish they would of drilled him!

[UPRR engineer]

Your not gonna get a failure for dumping it. I remember what the the guys in SCL said during school about stop tests, stopping is the important part, thats what its there for. Getting a frown for how you stopped it is alot better then getting fired for running it. I'll probably never have to dump it during a test, but if i did think i needed to use it, wouldn't think twice.

Anyone on the UP who gets in trouble for taking the appropriate action to stop the train should call the training center.

About five pages down tells you what expected during a stop test, Stop short of and acknowledge the flag with the horn.
https://employees.www.uprr.com/emp/oper ... ission.pdf

[CSX-COAL HAULER]

UPR ENGINEER you forgot to give us the user id and password to open that website! Haha

[slchub]

UPRR, thanks for the link! Perfect. Went right into my favorites. Thanks for the info!

[TB Diamond]

Used to play the game on both banner and dark or red intermediate signal tests. Took me about an hour to go two miles once on a dark signal. The TM running the test was a total jerk and the conductor and I got a real chuckle when we saw him driving off in probable disgust. We were ready to go to kangaroo court for delay of train, but it never happened.

[Noel Weaver]

Used to play the game on both banner and dark or red intermediate signal tests. Took me about an hour to go two miles once on a dark signal. The TM running the test was a total jerk and the conductor and I got a real chuckle when we saw him driving off in probable disgust. We were ready to go to kangaroo court for delay of train, but it never happened.

I don't think a charge of "delaying the train" would ever hold up when a
train is being operated under restricted speed conditions. If they did not
want the train delayed, they should have conducted their test somewhere
else and at some other time.
I remember once going east down the West Haven hill I encountered a
red signal on the first approach to the home signal at Cedar Street, New
Haven and the superintendent was there as my fireman saw him. I had
a GG-1 as this was in the Penn Central days and I lost a lot of time as
the visibility on a GG-1 was not too good anyway and I was looking out
for broken rail. The train did not make up much time going east out of
New Haven to Boston as I took a look on the delay report for that
particular train. That particular superintendent did not like me nor
engineers in general for that matter and he should have known that the
train was going to lost plenty of time over that. It did too.
I did not care about late trains, late connections, late passengers nor
anything else for that matter, I only cared about MY JOB.
Noel Weaver

[jz441]

Used to play the game on both banner and dark or red intermediate signal tests. Took me about an hour to go two miles once on a dark signal. The TM running the test was a total jerk and the conductor and I got a real chuckle when we saw him driving off in probable disgust. We were ready to go to kangaroo court for delay of train, but it never happened.

I love it...
If everyone did this railroads would get rid of stop test... Great job...

[Noel Weaver]

Used to play the game on both banner and dark or red intermediate signal tests. Took me about an hour to go two miles once on a dark signal. The TM running the test was a total jerk and the conductor and I got a real chuckle when we saw him driving off in probable disgust. We were ready to go to kangaroo court for delay of train, but it never happened.

I love it...
If everyone did this railroads would get rid of stop test... Great job...

I, for one, have never stated that the railroads should stop using the
banner test. They can't even if they wanted to. They should use better
judgement in where they use them and used them as a safety device and
not with the idea of trying to catch somebody or to make trouble for
their people. On Conrail that was the reason for their use, to drill it into
some of the people who needed drilling and th impress up the others that
it is important to do the job safely and according to the rules. In my
opinion there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is when the same
crew encounters two banner tests in the same trip or even in the same
months, this information is all computerized and they can well tell who is
on a train, who has been tested recently and who has not.
When a railroad official goes out to do an efficiency/safety test that
indicates a high number of violations, it does not bode well for that
company either, all of this information has to be maintained for the feds
and I am sure that they are not impressed with a large number of
failures as failures indicate a problem with not only the employee(s)
involved but in company proceedures including training and other factors
that are generally under the control of the company.
Don't be in a big hurry and work safely are most important on the railroad
and this has always been the case and always will be.
Noel Weaver

[TB Diamond]

Must clarify my previous post and say that the conductor and I put our heads together on the test mentioned. The TM had a rep as one who would go out of his way to be a sneak. We were getting back at his methods and were looking out for our jobs, as well. I did not always go to such extremes, but in this case it seemed the thing to do.