How many times have you ever heard of one train (same crew members) getting banner tested in a single trip (12 hours)? It happened 3 times to us-New Years eve. Dispatcher called me and said he has been dispatcher 13 years and has never seen this before.
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BANNER TEST!
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Moderator: Robert Paniagua
One word, Ingram.
You just shook the hand , that shook the hand, that shook the hand of John L. Sullivan!
When running on restricted speed-----you must be able to stop within half the range of vision------well weed weasels (trainmasters and rfe's ) like to put banners or flashing barricades in the middle of tracks around corners, boxcars, blind spots---to test to see if you have control of your train-----if you hit it---your fired.
I dont think its that way on the UP. Its not something you want to do, but if thats what it takes to stop.
Had it two times on a run from Las Vegas to Milford, Utah Last year. Just outside of Vegas headed east is a siding called Garnet. Leaving Garnet on a flasher we proceeded to the yellow and the red intermediate. Stopped and flagged and toned up the TD. Told nothing was out there that he knew of. Came around a short right hand turn and we saw a red flag between the rails. Stopped short and the MRO came on board. Gave us all an atta boy and sent us on our way. Headed on still at restricted speed, went under the underpass for I-15 and started into a blind right hand turn to Dry Lake and came upon another red flag. It was the other MRO! He came on board and said they were just making sure the guys were not assuming anything at restricted speed. Talk about pins and needles.
ExEMDLOCOTester wrote:Big hole or controlled stop?Controlled stop. You big-hole it, you fail. You run over the banner...you fail and are taken out of service.
IT IS BULL SHEET. CSX is waging WAR on its employees...can you imagine management in a plant, setting up barricades in front of towmotors, and firing drivers that hit them? In NO TIME you'd have activity on the floor slow to a CRAWL and the Union Steward ordering a walkout.
Railroaders, though, don't count. Engineers are affiliated with the most militant union in existence, the Teamsters...yet we DON'T COUNT.
conrail_engineer wrote:Banner tests are a federal requirement but not two of them in one and theExEMDLOCOTester wrote:Big hole or controlled stop?Controlled stop. You big-hole it, you fail. You run over the banner...you fail and are taken out of service.
IT IS BULL SHEET. CSX is waging WAR on its employees...can you imagine management in a plant, setting up barricades in front of towmotors, and firing drivers that hit them? In NO TIME you'd have activity on the floor slow to a CRAWL and the Union Steward ordering a walkout.
Railroaders, though, don't count. Engineers are affiliated with the most militant union in existence, the Teamsters...yet we DON'T COUNT.
same trip. Your union can't control this situation but you engineers can by
yourselves, how? every single red signal you have to pass enroute, take
lots of time through the block. three MPH is a safe speed as a rule and if
it is foggy, rainy, snow or other bad weather conditions even three MPH
could be too fast. You should not worry if it takes you 45 minutes to go
through a block, you do it safely and BY THE BOOK. Restricted speed is
a judgement speed not exceeding etc etc. If enough trains are delayed,
outlawed, tied up, connections missed and operating costs rise, may the
company will be a little bit more selective when they decide to pull a
signal on you.
Remember, you people control how fast the trains go and under restricted
speed conditions, they can go really slow. I told different dispatchers off
the record that they could figure on me dropping 45+ minutes on a red
signal where I get talked by at restricted speed or encountered a red
signal on the road between control points. I did not care what was behind
me or if I got jumped or if I outlawed.
Restricted speed, give them WHAT THEY WANT, RESTRICTED SPEED.
There is no acceptable excuse for a restricted speed violation.
Work safely!!!!!!!!!
Noel Weaver
Sage advice Mr. Weaver.
Restricted speed is far different on a sunny day, with straight track, vs: the conditions you mentioned. Ask, and ye shall receive!
Restricted speed is far different on a sunny day, with straight track, vs: the conditions you mentioned. Ask, and ye shall receive!
from NORAC:
MOVEMENT OF TRAINS
80. Movement at Restricted Speed
Movements made at Restricted Speed must apply the following three requirements as the method of operation:
1. Control the movement to permit stopping within one half the range of vision short of:
a. Other trains or railroad equipment occupying or fouling the track,
b. Obstructions,
c. Switches not properly lined for movement,
d. Derails set in the derailing position,
e. Any signal requiring a stop.
AND
2. Look out for broken rail and misaligned track.
AND
3. Do not exceed 20 MPH outside interlocking limits and 15 MPH within interlocking limits. This restriction applies to the entire movement, unless otherwise specified in the rule or instruction that requires Restricted Speed.
MOVEMENT OF TRAINS
80. Movement at Restricted Speed
Movements made at Restricted Speed must apply the following three requirements as the method of operation:
1. Control the movement to permit stopping within one half the range of vision short of:
a. Other trains or railroad equipment occupying or fouling the track,
b. Obstructions,
c. Switches not properly lined for movement,
d. Derails set in the derailing position,
e. Any signal requiring a stop.
AND
2. Look out for broken rail and misaligned track.
AND
3. Do not exceed 20 MPH outside interlocking limits and 15 MPH within interlocking limits. This restriction applies to the entire movement, unless otherwise specified in the rule or instruction that requires Restricted Speed.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???
Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.
ExEMDLOCOTester wrote:What protocols define restricted speed?There's any number of circumstances where restricted speed is required.
Those listed below apply as per GCOR.
Talked by a red/dark signal
Operating on a flashing-red
Changing directions in a block
Delayed within a block in ABS
Entering the main track where no signal governs
A reverse move
In restricted limits
In TWC when operating with a line-11/12
Initiating movement between signals
Yard limits, unless operating under a signal more favorable than approach
When joint, and using Track and Time.
These are just some circumstances, there's no doubt many, many more.
My apologies to every Engineer I cussed out awaiting the train to clear the grade crossing...... 