CP/D&H Discussion - New York State

[conrailsharedassets]

CP's Intermodal Business in and out of Philly (and also NJ) has been quite weak as of late. I would say CP is taking maybe 50-100 containers into and 50-100 out of Philadelphia a week. Just a few years ago, you could have mulitplied that number by 5 easiliy. However the freight business to Philly and Freight and Auto business to NJ/Allentown has picked up rather nicely. I can't figure it out for the life of me why the container business is so weak for CP on the east coast ports and seems to be declining. As you mentioned, the business is there. Hamburg-Sud is CP's largest container customer on the east coast, yet not even 1/10 of the Canada bound container business out of the east coast ports is on CP trains. CP has the red carpet layed out for them with the East Coast Ports to Canada traffic, but they don't seem to be making any steps on it... I would hope something is in the works to change this... Maybe with some NS backing something could happen.

I dont know how true it is, but I have heard CSX is giving CP a hard time at Ameriport in Philadelphia. This may have something to do with the declining container business to philly. Again I don't know how true it is, but I have also heard that CP maybe switching to NS's new Navy Yard Intermodal Terminal in Philly. But again I have NO confirmation on either of them, but it has been mentioned on posts on here in the recent past.

Jim Cerulli

[Otto Vondrak]

Interesting, but why don't we stick to the topic of your original post? CP/D&H in NEW YORK STATE. Allentown, Philadelphia, Sudbury can all be discussed in the Pennsylvania Railfan Forum. Thanks!

[K4Pacific]

OK, apparently the Prospect Avenue crossovers in Binghamton are being remoted next week. That will make an easier and more fluent entrance to the Buffalo runner thence Bevier St. To CP rails.

[conrailsharedassets]

Thanks for the info K4. That is a much needed improvement to the Binghamton Railroad Scene. The only problem that needs to be solved now, is the length of times trains sit waiting for crews at QD and BD. If trains recrewed/crewed in a more timely fashion, congestion (which is sometimes pretty severe) would be minimized. Easier said then done though I'm sure!

There has been some grumblings going around that 205/206 (CP 938/939) may start handling Philadelphia bound intermodal (via CP) from Chicago/Buffalo?!?! I guess from what I was told this would be handled on the headend with the Taylor blocks interchanged at CP BD b/w NS and Canadian Pacific in Binghamton. I don't know if anyone has heard anything similar? I believe an operation similar to this either happened for a time or was planned about 10 years ago! Maybe CP and NS are just getting around to implementing it now! There seems to be alot of long term plans (dating back to around the Conrail Split) finally becoming a reality today!

Jim Cerulli

[SecaucusJunction]

It boggles my mind how CP seems to have done so poorly at the eastern ports like NJ and PHI. They are really the only transcontinental railroad out there. They have a clear shot straight across the Northern US and Canada for what would look like seamless transportation to most areas. Technically, they could probably land bridge containers from Vancouver to NY if the traffic base was there. I'm not sure if the problem is access in NJ, if their route is too long between Binghamton and NJ or some other issues. While NS isn't currently doing great with port traffic in NJ, they are miles ahead of CP... and what traffic CP can move, is moved out of NJ via NS. I'd say the only reason that the D&H would be profitable (if it is) is because of NS rights in the region. I'm sure shale traffic will help the situation in PA and NY, but as for port traffic, from the outside, it looks like CP is not even interested in being a competitor.

[nysw136]

MOW was pulling a length of used welded rail up 2 runner towards the river bridge in Binghamton today. Rail was then dropped on the outside of the track.

[nysw136]

MOW was pulling a length of used welded rail up 2 runner towards the river bridge in Binghamton today. Rail was then dropped on the outside of the track.

[blockline4180]

It boggles my mind how CP seems to have done so poorly at the eastern ports like NJ and PHI. They are really the only transcontinental railroad out there. They have a clear shot straight across the Northern US and Canada for what would look like seamless transportation to most areas. Technically, they could probably land bridge containers from Vancouver to NY if the traffic base was there. I'm not sure if the problem is access in NJ, if their route is too long between Binghamton and NJ or some other issues. While NS isn't currently doing great with port traffic in NJ, they are miles ahead of CP... and what traffic CP can move, is moved out of NJ via NS. I'd say the only reason that the D&H would be profitable (if it is) is because of NS rights in the region. I'm sure shale traffic will help the situation in PA and NY, but as for port traffic, from the outside, it looks like CP is not even interested in being a competitor.

Good observations! Thanks!

[conrailsharedassets]

nysw136 - CP had equipment, new ties, tie plates and spikes staged at Terrace Road on the Southend of East Binghamton Yard. They are going to replace the rail on 1 and 2 Runners with CWR and do a tie project. Evidently the goal is to have the ability to run trains at 25-30mph right through the yard (essentially a by pass syle track). This is being done in preparation for the direct North/South intermodals that will be running between Harrisburg and Mechanicville that may not recrew in Binghamton.

Looks like CP is going to be doing alot of work in NYS and points south. There is new CWR, tie plates and spikes layed out along the D&H in a number of places. Look for more rail work later in the year, but to start it sounds like neccessary rail, tie and surfacing work will be done first and then improvements will take place after that! We shall see though!

SecaucusJunction and blockline4180 - CP (maybe CN) are the only true Transcon Railroads. However the route CP would have to take to actually run Transcon Trains would totally offset the benefits of them actually being able to do so. As I understand it, there is more to the whole picture of Northeast US railroading than meets the eye. CP absolutely has the capability of being a powerhouse in the Northeast, US even with their dependence on CSX/NS to access their port terminals. Theres alot on the table and I'm not gonna go much further into it than that. Theres alot of things in the pipeline right now that have been planned since before the Conrail Split that are just starting to get off the ground, now that the dust has settled from the breakup. We have already seen a number of things occur within the last 3 years (PAS, Mechanicville, Tier rebuild, etc.) that were planned over a decade prior to them becoming a reality. Just some food for thought!

Jim Cerulli

[johnpbarlow]

"....CP had equipment, new ties, tie plates and spikes staged at Terrace Road on the Southend of East Binghamton Yard. They are going to replace the rail on 1 and 2 Runners with CWR and do a tie project. Evidently the goal is to have the ability to run trains at 25-30mph right through the yard (essentially a by pass syle track). This is being done in preparation for the direct North/South intermodals that will be running between Harrisburg and Mechanicville that may not recrew in Binghamton....."

Does 25-30mph speed past E Binghamton yard imply installing signals and perhaps remote controlled switches, as well? And related to future installation of a 10,000' siding on the Sunbury line to close a 35 mile gap between existing sidings, are CP/NS considering doing same between any of the existing sidings between Binghamton and Schenectady? Or even just lengthening Richmondville siding from 7,400' to 10,000'?

[conrailsharedassets]

johnpbarlow - I'm not sure exactly what 25-30mph means for the D&H other than the fact that it will speed operations and relieve already existing congestion in the Binghamton area. Not to mention the fact that CP's Binghamton Runners both North and South of East Binghamton Yard are in horrible shape and in need of repair.

As for signals for the D&H, they already exist North of Binghamton. However only about 1/4 of the D&H south of Binghamton is CTC (even though its the busiest segment). With the soon to be approaching Federally Mandated deadline of PTC signal installation, I'm sure the whole D&H will be seeing an upgrade to full CTC (w/PTC) in the next 2-3 years.

As for sidings I'm not sure what the plans are for North of Binghamton at this time, if there are any at all... There is a siding planned on the Sunbury Sub near Catawissa, but we can't discuss anything south of the NYS border on this section of the forum. So if you have anymore questions, or would like further details please feel free to send me a PM through the site.

Jim Cerulli

[johnpbarlow]

My recollection from the few times I have visited E Binghamton yard is that both 1 and 2 running tracks have a handful of hand-throw switches. It seems that NS trains currently pass the yard at a crawl not only due to decrepit track but also to be able to stop when a "bad" switch alignment is eyed by the operating crew. I'm guessing that stopping distance at 25mph would require these switches to at least be wired into a signal system that would reflect switch alignment/track occupancy well in advance of the switch.

Thanks for the info.

[nysw136]

Went past the CP Yard today. One side of #2 runner has the jointed rail replaced with welded rail and ballast scraped up on the ties. Terrace Drive has two sections of panel track staged next to the crossing for next weeks replacement. Also noticed a lot of ties marked in bright paint down near Powers Rd. as well.

[K4Pacific]

TEC TRAIN coming south (west) today along I88. That should throw slow orders out there - gumming up the works - but necessary safety. So "schedules" should be all goofed up. Poor Gordy Smith today. I pity the dispatchers. Also, an extra autorack today left Horseheads this morning for the CP. Can anyone follow up on that?

[K4Pacific]

Correction on yesterday (even dispatchers can be wrong). TEC train only did Rouses Point to Willsboro, then deadheaded to SAR. Only 8 slow orders issued - four dealt with directly.

Today (Thursday) - TEC train tests SAR to EB then deadheads to KASE. Friday they test Kase to EB, then deadhead to SAR. So patterns on the (A&S) could be disrupted today due to slow orders. Perfect day for pictures so get out there if you can.